Whole Without Motherhood

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey, friend. [00:00:02] Speaker B: Welcome to Perspectives into Practice, a place where life's stories meet practical wisdom. Together, we'll explore how faith filled perspectives can transform the way we live, love and grow. So grab a seat, settle in, and join us on this journey to turn inspiration into action. Let's dive in foreign. [00:00:29] Speaker A: Hey, friend. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Welcome back to Perspectives in the Practice. Today we are having a really important question about womanhood, identity and the past we don't often hear celebrated in church. I am joined by my sweet friend Christina, a woman of deep thought, strong conviction, and someone who knows that motherhood is not the only calling a faithful woman can carry. Whether you've chosen a child free life or are still discerning, or maybe you just want to better understand this perspective, this episode is for you. Welcome, Christina. [00:01:03] Speaker A: Hey, y' all. [00:01:04] Speaker B: Hey. Hey. Okay, so before we dive in, I always do a fun fact. And this. I was fascinated. You are fascinating, period. But every time that you sent me a new fun fact, you're like, oh, what about this? Amazing. So this one, we are specifically talking about a quote that you heard in elementary school. So tell us about this because this is amazing. [00:01:32] Speaker A: So fear, you know, in order to get children over their fears, you say, oh, you're only afraid of something because you don't know enough about it or you're not understanding it. And that makes sense, right? There's lots of opportunities in which we can be afraid of something when we don't fully understand it. Um, so, you know, little elementary school, Tina decided that she was going to go to the library and check out every book about sharks under 250 pages. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:02:02] Speaker A: And my mom just thought this was normal behavior, bless her. So I know almost everything there is to know about every breed of sharks now. [00:02:17] Speaker B: It is amazing. And I knew that you knew so much about sharks. And I've known. I had no idea because I just didn't think to ask, I guess. But I'm just like, I love that she knows so much about sharks. And, like, you get giddy about Shark Week. I do. [00:02:33] Speaker A: I love it so much, man. In college, I would call out of work at Cracker Barrel to watch Shark Week. I would, man, I love Shark Week so much because it. Well, now it's a little bit wonky, but it used to be, heck, a lot of fun because there were all these factoids and I'm like, I already knew that. But yes. So am I afraid of sharks still? Yes, but it is a healthy fear. Yeah. One of my dreams. I gotta dive with white sharks. That's gonna be one of my things. That's. That's a bucket list situation. And at that point, then I will gain even more information from the people helping me. [00:03:11] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Or you'll tell them the things they don't know, which. [00:03:14] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, that would be so annoying, wouldn't it? I would so do that. Absolutely. [00:03:20] Speaker B: And you would feel no remorse because they need to know. Yeah. [00:03:24] Speaker A: And they're gonna be nervous. [00:03:27] Speaker B: Yes, sure. [00:03:28] Speaker A: So I've got my nervous energy, which I'm just gonna start spouting strange things you don't want to hear. [00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I fully welcome that. [00:03:36] Speaker A: You know, thus starting off the podcast this way. I love it. [00:03:41] Speaker B: I love it. So today we are bringing that same spirit of curiosity and truth to something often misunderstood. And a woman who follows Jesus also doesn't want children. And I feel like that is something that we don't talk about in churches. People aren't discussing it, but we have had many a conversation over the years about it because of the unfairness that seems to surround the topic. So can you share how and when you came to this decision to not have children? Like, what did that look like? [00:04:20] Speaker A: Yes, sure. But first, I want to give you kudos for being a safe person to talk with about that and also being a person who loves her own children but doesn't force that upon me. That's a really, really special thing. So thank you for being able to be there for through that. So none of our childhoods are perfect, right? Nobody's perfect. But I think that there are three ways that I've seen where women can respond to the trauma that they've experienced in childhood. Either they don't recognize that there was any pain and. And they just have children and perpetuate the exact same thing that their parents perpetuated with them and continue on and don't see anything wrong with it. Sometimes the second option would be like, oh, I'm going to do so much better with kids. My kids are not going to be like that. I'm going to love them and I'm going to do this for them and I'm going to do that, and I'm not going to do this and I'm not going to do that. So that's like the second option. The third option, which is rare in millennials, but I think is becoming more popular with that. The, the younger group that's coming in since we're old now, but I think it's becoming more popular, is that we're acknowledging the pain, but we're also self aware enough to acknowledge we may not be able to change it. I may not have the power to break this habit because I don't fully know how to change it at this point in time. So why would I bring a child, an innocent child, into the world that I know I am now going to hurt in some way? And, and when I say hurt in some way, I don't mean like, oh, you don't get to go out with your friends because you didn't finish your homework. I'm talking about legit pain. And I don't think, gosh, I don't think that I ever really felt ready to have kids until maybe last year, you know, like 38, 39. I thought, oh, you know what? I think I could have a child now and be able to love them unconditionally and show them what true faith and how beautiful it could be to be my child. In other words, having a child in order to grow the child instead of to satisfy you. [00:06:36] Speaker B: And I think that's a really good discernment for yourself. And a lot of people don't know that that's the choice that they need to make and make other choices instead, hoping that that will fix something that they don't know is broken. And I, I think that, that. I think you're right with those three categories. And so what are those reactions that you've received from Christian in the Christian space when you share this? [00:07:08] Speaker A: Honestly, I don't get a lot of chance to share it. I'll just be completely blunt with you because people don't. They don't know how to react to it. They're usually in shock or, or just kind of pushing past it. I mean, I've been getting strange reactions my whole life. I didn't play with dolls when I was a kid. I had no dolls. I never played mother, ever. I had Barbies. I would dress them up real cute. They would have good shoes and good purses, and they'd go on little dates. And it was special. But I never had dolls. I never wanted to mother anything. It. I mean, cats, sure, pets love them, but it's not, Never been something like, I didn't want to take care of my little sister. I wanted her to be my friend. I wanted my mom to take care of her because she was parent. I did not want to be parent. [00:07:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:56] Speaker A: So even from a young age, it wasn't accepted then. You know, through high school, I just thought it was wild. We had in our high school, Our high school was beside a cow pasture. So I just have to Preface it with there wasn't much to do. So. Because there wasn't much to do, we, we did have like a motherhood class where people in high school could bring their kids to school, which was a beautiful thing for them. But I was just. The same shock that happens when I talk to people now that they have when they realize I don't have kids is the same shock that I had when I realized people were having kids. [00:08:31] Speaker B: Oh, my. [00:08:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't understand why. I don't understand. You have kids. Why. Versus people are looking at me like, why don't you have kids? Why? So I get the shock. I really do. And you know, in your early, in your early 20s, mid-20s, people like, oh, you'll change your mind. You'll change your mind. Some people react and say, oh, when you get here, you'll, when you do this, you'll figure it out. Or eventually, you know, in my early to mid-30s, it could still happen for you. It could still happen. And then, you know, mid-30s to, to now, late 30s, almost 40, 40 this year. What, what now? People are like, well, you know, you could adopt. You could adopt like a 5 or 10 year old. And I'm like, yes, and that would be beautiful. But I tell you what, Jessica, I have made. I just, I have responses. I have, like, canned responses for these people when they ask me, hey, do you have kids? Because that's always the question, right? You say, hi, what's your name? Do you have kids? That's always, that's always the second question. [00:09:39] Speaker B: It's our age. Yeah. [00:09:40] Speaker A: Yes. And it's a, it's. I understand that. It's a way to reach out and to connect. I get that. Absolutely. And I respect that. But after a while, I just started saying things like, oh, no, but we're having lots of fun practicing. [00:09:54] Speaker B: Yes. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Or oh, no, I had a really, really traumatic childhood and didn't feel like passing that on. How about you? And people just kind of stare at me. But, but you know me and I. People stare at me whether I say something normal or say something weird. I'm, I'm just say weird things. So people stare at me weirdly anyway. But I always think there, there are more questions that you can say. And someone just recently, this week asked me, just in passing. We were acquaintances, met each other. Hey, do you have any kids? I said, nope. And she goes, cool, good for you. I have, too. And then we just started talking about something else. [00:10:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:29] Speaker A: And I was like, where has this been my whole life? Like, this is a Beautiful transition. Just we. Here is the connection. We have now connected and we understand where we are on this. Let's go to a new point of connection. [00:10:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it's so awesome that you have. It's awesome and saddening that you have had to come up with these questions, these statements on the other side, I will say from a person who has multiple children, I get those same type of questions, but for the amount that we have. And yes, it is, because I'm like, you realize that we're talking about marital relations. [00:11:11] Speaker A: Yes. This is very deeply personal. And in. Heaven forbid someone be going through. Maybe they just had a miscarriage, maybe they are really struggling with infertility and they're crying out to God every night. I know people in both states of life, those two. And almost every person that I know has had a miscarriage besides one. And bless her, she is beautifully fertile. But every other person I know has had a miscarriage. And I'm like, you can't just be going around asking people about their children and about their womb and about their marital relations. Like, what, What. What makes you think that this is an appropriate line of conversation instead of, hey, how long have you been going to this church? Or have you lived in this area for very long? Or are you married? How long? You know, what's that story there? How did you guys meet? Like, there's lots of other ways to connect with people. Do you like board games? Do you like dinosaurs? I can tell you about sharks. Exactly, right? [00:12:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Well. And I think that people are uncomfortable when your lifestyle and your life choices aren't theirs because they don't know how to react. Because if their whole life, everyone's having, you get married, you have babies, you grow them up, period, and you're, like, confident in who you are. I got married. I'm not having children. I love sharks. Well, that's. I don't know, what are we going to talk about if you don't have kids? Like, how. How can we be friends? Because that's not your whole world. I think I. Honestly, I think it just makes people uncomfortable. And I think because I am comfortable in who I am and I want to make other people comfortable. And I'm so thankful that you say that because we've had many conversations about this. But I never want to make someone feel less than because of their choices, because they aren't mine. Because that's you. You do. You boo. [00:13:21] Speaker A: Well, the thing is, somebody support you. Thank you. You do it well. And I appreciate that you do it well. But someone else's success or their failure does not negate or exacerbate my success or failure. Like, we can cheer each other on. It doesn't. [00:13:36] Speaker B: It's. [00:13:36] Speaker A: It's not a competition in these kinds of situations, they are completely different. Like, it's not even two pieces of spaghetti. We are in completely different pots. I might be in Italy, you know, it's totally fine. Or Australia with the Sharks. [00:13:51] Speaker B: I love it. So in, in the untraditional, I'll say untraditional narrative that you have written for your family, what types of things or how have you grown in your relationship with the Lord and your husband in choosing this path? [00:14:12] Speaker A: Sure, it does look different than a lot of people's path. And I think our relationships with other people our age are impacted by that a lot. And because our relationships with other people our age are impacted, that impacts our relationship with each other. So in that way, he and I have become each other's rock. Essentially. The things that you would, you know, go to your children's game or practice and you would sit with people your same gender, your same age, and you would talk about things that you all have in common. I don't get that. So he and I get that together and we have made a very conscious effort to grow together instead of separately. So if we, I don't know if I want to watch a documentary. He watches the documentary with me and we talk about it. If he wants to try intermittent fasting, I try intermittent fasting. And then we can talk about it together and be frustrated about how hungry we are. You know, we try, we try to do these things together. And because of that, I think from the outside, it looks as though we're still in the honeymoon phase, you know, certainly not as lovey dovey or rose tinted glasses as we were 16, 17 years ago when we started the marriage. But in the fact that we are each other's priority 100%, you know, because we're not trying to keep a small human alive. And when you're trying to keep a small human or five small humans alive, you are absolutely keeping them in a priority because that is very important. And they're constantly trying to not be alive. So you gotta, you gotta pay attention. And we don't have that. So we have opportunities to really get together. And those opportunities sometimes can turn into reasons why we get sick of each other as well. Instead of, oh, I'm, let's have date night. Like every night is date night. You know, we come home and we talk about our Days, and we have dinner together, and maybe we'll watch a show or do something fun together. And, like, that is a date night. Right? Is that not what a date night is supposed to be? [00:16:29] Speaker B: Absolutely, yes. [00:16:31] Speaker A: Date night is every night. And I'm not saying that in. In some sort of a high and mighty or a boastful way. I'm just saying we. That is what it is. That is the life that we have right now. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Well, and I love that you can be intentional with your spouse and with your relationship and who you both are and not be drawn away and pulled in a million directions because you know yourself best and the Lord knew what it would be for you. And I have to say, it's been amazing to see you grow in the last however long we've. Very long. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Stop. We're so young. We're so young still. Totally. [00:17:14] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. Absolutely. Yes. But truly like to see how much you've grown. And if. If you were to, you know, put a person who has had all these children and then where you get to have these conversations with yourself and conversations with the Lord, and you get to choose to, you know, heal wounds that you didn't make, and you get to heal things in your relationship, which takes time. [00:17:43] Speaker A: Takes a lot of time. It takes a, heck, a lot of effort. And I wouldn't have been able to focus on that at all had I had children, which is why I would have continued to perpetuate the same things that were done wrong to me, because I would not have had that time to understand that it could be done a different way. And it's. Yeah, man, I spent 40 minutes on the back porch today reading psalms and just having the best time. And then, you know, after my husband has his Bible study, we talk about it together. We're like, hey, what are you reading? And what did you see? And what do I. And we always, almost aggravatingly have completely different viewpoints. I'm like, man, could you not just agree with me a little bit that I did good here? [00:18:26] Speaker B: I could believe that. [00:18:28] Speaker A: I can believe that different. And. And it's beautiful. And I know that God put us together for many reasons, and one of them is to be like, hey, your way is not always right. There are lots of other ways that scripture can touch you. And I. I mean, I just need to have a sample size of 2 people to know that scripture speaks individually to each person. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, and the scripture says iron sharpens iron, so why would he, you know, not bring that in your relationship, too? And, yeah, that's just. That is so beautiful to hear because I don't know what other people's thoughts are about someone who doesn't have children, who doesn't choose to have children or adopt children or whatever the. The path may be. I don't know what their viewpoint is. But I appreciate that you have not given into peer pressure. You have not tried to change the narrative that you decided apparently way earlier than you even, I think consciously could decide and continued with that. And I really believe that the Lord has helped you to flourish in that and to become the amazing woman that you are now. [00:19:34] Speaker A: You're so kind in that you're so kind. There. There are just so many more opportunities and there. Okay, so for example, when, when you're married, you kind of look at single people of, oh, maybe we can interact in this one setting, but we can't interact in every setting. Or I need to guard myself against you. That is kind of the vibe that I get with people who have kids. Like, my barrenness is not catchy. Like, I, I'm not going to give this to you and I am not upset that you had kids. Like, if you will let me get to know you, I will love your kids and like, have a good time with them and it'll be great. So I wish that people knew the benefits of having friends that don't have kids. Like, let's say you want to go to the zoo, but it's difficult for you to take care of all your kids because you don't enjoy your time with all of them running around. Guess what? I can run around. I can run around at the zoo. Invite me to the zoo. I will run around with them and tell them all of the facts of the animals and they will have a grand time. Because I'm not, quote, unquote, mom. I can still be a little cool. Not that cool anymore, but a little cool. And you know, you need, oh, you need shoes for your Easter dress and you have no clue where to go. And calm. Call your friend who doesn't have kids. They'll say, oh, I saw some good shoes on sale, blah blah at this place. Do you want to go? I can pick you up. Let's go and go shopping for shoes. Like, let me put my book down. [00:21:10] Speaker B: And sales on makeup things. And I'm like, yes, because I'm not looking for this, but you bring it to me. Like, hey, want to go have these? [00:21:18] Speaker A: Here is my. These are offering my friendship offering to you. Please do not rebuff me. No, there I. [00:21:26] Speaker B: You know what? I will say that as I'm getting older and my kids are getting older and they are more able to take care of themselves. I wish I had more either child free parents or parents that have older kids that empty nesters to just, yes. Like to just be with me because sometimes I just do. I just want to be with that and I want kids because I've, I've raised. Well, they're not all grown but I've raised them and they're getting older and it's getting easier and I'm getting more time away. So I want to do adult things that don't have kids. And I don't, I don't want to feel bad because I don't want your kids there. [00:22:11] Speaker A: Everybody's kids are different and everyone's everyone mothers differently. So you kind of have to be prepared for how your friend behaves as a mother. I have mother friends who are very just oh, they're experimenting up there. My child is licking their, the wall. They're experimenting with what the wall tastes like and that is the way they mother and I respect that. And I, you know, maybe try to get the kid to lick a spoon but that, that's just the way it goes. I have mothers friends who are mothers who are just really, really helicopter parent, you know. And I'm not even able to talk with them on the phone because they're constantly put this down, do this. And yes. And you know your relationships with, when you don't have children, your relationships with moms go. Sometimes they go on a little hiatus, you know, while their kids are young. And I have come to enjoy that and embrace it because I want to celebrate that my friend has given life and that my friend wants to put her attention there. Like that's great. I will be the exact same human when you're ready to come back. I am not changing. I will be right here. You don't have to feel guilty for not giving me as much time as you used to like take care of your small human. I'm happy for you. Let me know when you need something. Let me know when you want to go play somewhere and that's great. And if, and if I have to wait till the kid goes to kindergarten, great. That's fine. I'm still here. Yeah. It's not like, it's not like them having a kid is, is breaking the relationship or is offending me in some way. You know how you'll have friends and you just, you separate because you don't see eye to eye on something or there's just something that's impassable, that you can't repair. [00:23:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:58] Speaker A: And you just kind of amicably go your separate ways. It's. It's not like that. I'm like, yay, you let me know. [00:24:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I wonder if when people hear about your lifestyle, not having children and being completely content, if they feel guilty in some aspect because they had children, probably knowing they shouldn't have, that just came to mind. I'm wondering if that may cause some of this discomfort because they're seeing that, you know what I probably shouldn't have. [00:24:37] Speaker A: I'm not sure if they're self aware enough to know that. They may just be like, I have a kid and I'm not getting any sleep and I'm not happy and you get to have sleep and I'm mad at you. [00:24:49] Speaker B: You look so youthful and amazing. [00:24:51] Speaker A: Right? [00:24:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. [00:24:53] Speaker A: I'm. I've experienced that kind of jealousy, which is strange because everyone makes their own choices and that's fine. And, um, I have experienced people having pity, you know, having that, that pity for me that I'll never understand. Unconditional love. And you know what's kind of funny, just an aside about unconditional love is through all of my, you know, almost a decade of therapy, as I'm learning, I didn't know what unconditional love is. And would I have known if I had a kid? I don't know. I don't know if that would have been the way that, that I would have learned. But I'm learning now. And it's. It's interesting to have individuals who have children just assume what my life is like or assume that I am to be pitied or I am unhappy, or that something really awful happened to me in my childhood, which it did. But it, it just. Maybe I'm just a human that decided a different path and that's okay. Maybe that's all it is. You know, I talked to, when I was still in my early 30s making decisions, I talked to two women that I worked with that were over 65 that never had kids. And I just, you know, asked them, like, what has your life been like? Have you ever regretted it? And they both separately. They both separately told me similar things, which was that their relationships with other people struggled for a bit while their kids were young, but that they've never felt as though they were missing out on anything. [00:26:27] Speaker B: That's amazing. [00:26:28] Speaker A: They just didn't feel that way. [00:26:30] Speaker B: I love that the Lord gave you two different little sample of older women that are okay with it. And it's kind of like a little. Little hug from the Lord. Be like, yeah, you're not the only one. People don't talk about it, but you're not the only one. [00:26:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:26:48] Speaker B: So I was actually. I was going to ask you, have there been anything that. Where you felt particularly seen or validated from the Lord in this decision? And I feel like that's. That's amazing that you had those people right there. [00:27:03] Speaker A: Yes, they were right there, and they had both similar answers. And now they both were head over heels into their career, which I do not think I will be. I would like to be outstanding in my field. Outstanding in my field is where I would like to be. [00:27:20] Speaker B: You have a lot of great deer out there. [00:27:23] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. There was a baby deer this morning, Jessica. It was legitimate Bambi. It popped out of the woods, and it did like a bounce, bounce, bounce, little frolicking. And then it ran back in, and I just about lost it. And this is when I was studying Psalm 23, and we were talking about the Lord is my shepherd. [00:27:38] Speaker B: And I'm like, oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. [00:27:42] Speaker A: All of this beauty. And here, you know, my dog's on my lap, and I'm like, covering his face. Like, don't look, don't look, don't look, don't look. Because if he saw, you would run out and bark. And I swear. Oh, yeah, I swear he's smiling. [00:27:54] Speaker B: Don't ruin this for me. [00:27:54] Speaker A: I know. I'm like, this is a beautiful God moment. Be quiet. Don't look. [00:27:58] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. That is hilarious. But yes, yes, outstanding in your field. And you just had a little moment. Celebration in your work. [00:28:11] Speaker A: We're not supposed to talk about that. Supposedly. Supposedly, not everyone likes to celebrate other people. And so this is another life's like, yes, this is another life choice that I have made to leave my employment, which, by the way, was at the prompting of a Christian book that we had in book club that when I told people in book club I was actually doing the thing and leaving my job, everyone was like, no. I'm like, I'm sorry. Did you not do your homework? Are we not. I don't like. This is. [00:28:41] Speaker B: Was that not. [00:28:42] Speaker A: This is the assignment. I don't understand. This is. But that. That's just. [00:28:49] Speaker B: I am so happy for you. I think that that's amazing because I know how hard you worked in that and how long. How much you've done for other people and things that they don't even see. See. And you deserve That I am now. [00:29:02] Speaker A: Going to practice standing in my field. [00:29:05] Speaker B: I love it. [00:29:06] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:29:06] Speaker B: And posting pictures about them and posting. [00:29:08] Speaker A: Pictures about my babies. I want to be. Listen, this is an aside. You probably won't put this in here, but I recently re reconnected with one of my teachers in high school. He was an English teacher. We had our like 20th anniversary or something. And I didn't go, of course, because that was terrifying. But I did talk with some of the teachers and I told him that my goal was to be a fairy princess and to have a little like watering hole in the woods and to have like a camera. That way I could have all my animals come and to feed them and, and have my wildflowers. And he wrote back, that is not surprising at all. Like, well, I'm so glad. I'm so glad I am still the same person I was when I was so 16 and 17. And that you had no expect. He had no expectations for me to have children. He thought, absolutely, yes, you're going to be a fairy princess. This is it. [00:30:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:03] Speaker A: This is your life path. [00:30:04] Speaker B: That's it. You know it. And that is a totally acceptable one. And I feel like if you were just to tell people that in the beginning, then you would have zero problem. [00:30:13] Speaker A: So do you have princesses don't have kids? No, I'm a fairy princess. [00:30:17] Speaker B: I'm a fairy princess. [00:30:20] Speaker A: That would be the best way to filter out people for me. Really? Because that would authentically. Oh my gosh. That. Okay, I'm gonna put that right up to I found a cool rock. Do you want to see? That's a really good one too. To filter people out is I found a cool rock. Do you want to see it? And if someone looks at you strange, that's not my person. But the person said like, yes, absolutely I do. Those are my people. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Oh yes. So a couple more questions. This has been so amazing. How can churches make space for women that have chosen this. This life, these child free women that are equally called and whole in Christ period, period. Well, it's a question mark, but the period was the thought, like period. I. [00:31:14] Speaker A: This is a great question. Currently I've only found leadership roles and yes, child free women are excellent at leadership roles because we have the time and the effort to put towards it. You know, when I actually got the bravery up a couple years ago to try to join a women's group, I went to their beautiful, you know, table and everything was split up by how old your kids were. And, and I said no. And I said, I Don't have any kids. And she goes, oh, okay, I'm sorry. We have. We have an infertility group. I'm like, oh, no, that's not really my vibe either. So I tried an older women's group, but they talked about their grandchildren the whole time. So that was. And it's not like when we go around asking for prayer requests. I want people to feel authentic that they can ask for their prayer requests. If I am in a group where everyone is asking about prayer for their children, I'm not able to participate fully in that group because when it comes to me, I'm going to say, I found it a tick on my head last week and I'm afraid maybe I'm going to die. Could you pray for me, please? Like that? Like that's what's happening in my life versus they're like, oh, I found my child vaping, or my child is doing. You know. And these are legit things. I would recommend to anyone that is trying to find a group of women who are going to talk about the Bible when they are having Bible study to seek out a group that specifically says child care not provided. The one that I found is a book club, and we go through a Christian book once a quarter, and I wish it were more often, but it's once a quarter and it's beautiful. And we go. [00:33:09] Speaker B: Not everyone can be as great a reader as you, Christina. [00:33:12] Speaker A: I know. I'm sorry. If you knew how many books I'd read this year already. Thank goodness there's a library and I don't have to purchase these. [00:33:21] Speaker B: Oh, yes, yes. [00:33:23] Speaker A: We love Support your public library. Plug it. It would be great, I think, even in serving roles, like, for example, I was able to do VBS this year. That was my first time I was able to do VBS because I wasn't working during the day. And it was wonderful. And I would have loved to have a little group of people that were volunteering that didn't have kids themselves because there's some child behavior that I wasn't prepared for. Because children have changed since we were children, as well as the things that are appropriate to do with children are now no longer appropriate. Like, I can't go into the restroom with a girl. If she has to go to the bathroom, I have to send another girl with her and stand outside. These are things, I think, that make other parents are. Are routinely exposed to. But if you have a child free person who's very happy to love on your child for VBS week and has all the energy um, but we don't know all the rules. It can get a little bit squirrely. So it would be cool to have a little section of. Hey, this is what's going on. We love your energy. So glad. Here are a few things that are happening as far as the new ways that you are supposed to discipline a child, AKA not disciplining the child. So, yes, it would be helpful to know these things. [00:34:47] Speaker B: I. I totally agree. And you know, you saying that reminds me that because I have kids and we. They have grown up with these things and we have evolved as they've grown up, I don't think about that part because. Yeah, maybe that's why. Interesting. Now you've got my wheel spinning. [00:35:08] Speaker A: See, there are things we don't know. Like I went. There were boys that were, you know, hitting each other. What am I supposed to do when boys hit each other? I just stood between them. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:35:17] Speaker A: Stood between them. I was like, surely this is appropriate for me to just stand between them. Right. But what if, I don't know, they accidentally touched me? Then that's awful. That's not okay. Because now I've pushed them aside and now three of us are sitting in two seats. You know, we don't know this. We don't know these things. So, yes, like some sort of a support email would be excellent and a number to call if we have questions would be excellent. I, you know, I would love to say there would be. It would be great to have a group of women that don't have kids to get together that are all on the same page in the faith, but I don't think we all would be on the same page in the faith. It is an interesting crowd of women that do not have children. We all choose it for many different reasons. And that is why I say that I think it would be best for us to serve together, because then not only do we have not having kids in common, then we have something else that we're working towards in common and we can continue along that relationship naturally. [00:36:23] Speaker B: I love that. I think more people need to talk about this because, like. Yes. Period. Yes. So as we wrap this up, what is one perspective that you would encourage listeners to apply today? [00:36:38] Speaker A: So that's more of like a twofold. So. So the listeners who have children of their own and listeners who do not. Practical tip for listeners who do have children of their own that encounter one of us unicorns in the wild and asks the natural question, do you have kids? The answer is no. Some people, such as yourself, are beautiful, empathetic, souls and you may want to extend encouragement or extend whatever the emotion is that person needs. So a good follow up question maybe do you want to talk about that more? You know, you don't have kids. Do you want to talk about that more? Because some people are really open with their infertility journey. Some people find a lot of help in, you know, some may ask you questions like how did you get pregnant? Or what is it like to have this many kids? Or what is it like? Just maybe people are more open. I am more reserved. So if someone were to ask me that question and I said no, a good follow up would be like, cool. So how long have you been coming to this church? Or again, how long have you lived in this area? Did you go to school here? What did you go to school for? Those kinds of questions I think are safe and do not make you identify as any specific thing. I love that I would encourage women who are in their 30s that have fully decided not to to have children. That it is, it is a decision. And there are going to be positives and negatives on, on any decision. There are plenty of women out there that had children that wish they didn't have children and there are plenty of child free women that wish they did. And it's just one of those things that you have to really go to God about and know that he's got you regardless, God has you, whether you're going to be happy about it or whether, whether you're going to be miserable about it. For example, I will, I have to lay my guilt down at the feet of Jesus almost daily for not giving my husband a child because he is the most caring and sympathetic and fun and encouraging man. And he would be an excellent father, an excellent father. And I did not provide that for him. So I have to lay that down. That guilt and the performance, you know, we all talk. You talked about performative stuff on one of your other podcasts. So it's not all rainbows and butterflies. There are positives and negatives, I think in every choice you make. But the encouragement I would offer is that if you persevere, you will find your people or the people you had previously found will remember that they are women and not just mothers, and they will come back to you and all will continue to grow. It may not be perfect, no relationships are, but there is space for us. We have the incredible capacity to serve in a way that has exponential enthusiasm that other people who have been dealing with their own children all day are not able to do. Yeah, we have a lot more freedom. And I would encourage people to use that freedom to be available to others if they need something and just really seek how you can be Jesus to those people that are around you in a way that maybe they aren't expecting because they may be expecting you to have another agenda because they may be expecting you have children. [00:40:04] Speaker B: Yeah. That's so good. I love that. [00:40:06] Speaker A: I would love to say another thing that for mothers who may be tempted to discount their friends that don't have children to keep us around because we may be very useful when it's time to give your child the birds and the bees talk, or when your child has had too much to drink at a field party and they don't want to call their parent or any number of situations they don't feel comfortable talking to their parents about. We can be there if you will allow us to continue to be your friend and will allow us to be trustworthy with your child. Just because we don't have one doesn't mean we're going to break yours. It actually means we have a greater capacity to be there. So don't, don't push us out or discount us. [00:40:52] Speaker B: I love that. Well, friend, if you are listening, whether your story includes children or not, know this. You are not incomplete. You are his. And I pray that we will keep choosing Keep curiosity over fear, the truth over assumption. And listening to these episodes is a really great place to start. And remember that even small shifts in perspective can lead to big changes. Now go put those perspectives into practice. Talk to you next time.