Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey, friend. Welcome to Perspectives into Practice, a place where life's stories meet practical wisdom. Together, we'll explore how faith filled perspectives can transform the way we live, love, and grow.
So grab a seat, settle in, and join us on this journey to turn inspiration into action.
Let's dive in foreign.
Welcome back to Perspectives into Practice. I am so glad that you're here. Today's conversation is one that I believe will really speak to your heart, especially if you've ever felt like you're going through the motions in your faith. Maybe you've said all the right things, shown up in all the right ways, but still felt distant from God. If that's you, this episode is for you.
Today, my guest is someone whose honesty and spiritual insight truly stopped me in my tracks. Emily is a voice for healing and authenticity in the church. And what I love most about her is her courage to tell the hard parts of her story. The messy middle and how God met her there. Welcome, Emily.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: What an introduction.
Putting it all out there.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Hey, we just gotta get right into it.
I love it. I tell them all here. You know, we get 20 to 30 minutes. I want to, like, cram it all in there. Mm.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: I'm here for it.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: I love that.
So before we dive into the deep stuff, y' all know I love a good, fun fact. And Emily's fun fact is a fun one. It is. She is a total puzzle enthusiast, and she says she kicked off puzzle season with a massive 2000 piece landscape puzzle. And I just have to ask for everyone listening, what is puzzle season?
[00:01:51] Speaker B: Okay, well, so I know it's not, like, on the calendar, but I think pu season starts like, around the fall. But, like, if you're a puzzler, you know, when it's puzzle season, you, like, start to get that, like, internal, like, desire to just, like, dig into a really good, A really good puzzle. It goes like, pretty simultaneously with, like, pumpkin spice season, but, like, not exactly. So.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Okay. I had a feeling that it probably had something to do with fall because it's cooler. You go inside, I'm sure, like hot cup of tea and a puzzle and just.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: They go. Perfect. Yes.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. And you know, that kind of focus and patience is no joke. My brain, I can focus for a little bit of time, but then, then I'm done. And I, I, I applaud you two thou. I can't. 2000 piece landscape puzzle. That it at least have the edges?
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Yes. So I get my puzzles from the library, and I love picking. There's like, some Dear lady out there who, when she packages up her, she puts the edge pieces separate and like whoever she is, she's an angel on earth. Because I. Right. I always gravitate toward her puzzles. I'm like, I just feel like I need to write her a thank you note because then you just get started off so nice. But I will say, like, me doing puzzles is just probably a sign of like my poor mental health also because I do them as like a coping mechanism for like anxiety and all that kind of stuff. So probably the fact that I did a 2000 piece puzzle was just like, gives you a glimpse into.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: At this point.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: But probably I did one puzzle that I think actually did highlight that I was unstable. It was like 1000 piece puzzle of all black pieces, like every single piece, which there was no picture, there was no shading, there was nothing. It was just all black pieces. And it was unbelievable and horrifying and like incredible. And I glued it together and I like hung it up on my wall for a while. And then I realized that it probably just showcased how unst was. And so I was like, you know what, maybe I should like hide this away.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. No, no, keep it up, Keep it up. And, you know, pieces of the puzzle remind me of like our walk with the Lord, our life, right? So we get to see these little pieces, but he sees the whole thing. And I love though that you can do that with what you have and you can go, you know what? Mama needs a little timeout right now. We're going to do some puzzle time. And I think that that is. That is wonderful. I wish. I wish that I did them more because I feel like it does help your brain. Like it does help. I'm sure there's some science out there that says that it helps connect things and keeps you young, which I'm sure we. All right, man. Wow. Well, Emily, your story, it begins with loss and a kind of grief that unravels everything that you thought you understood about faith. But it's also a story of beginning again and how God met you there in the most unexpected, grace filled ways. So can you take us back to the moment when your world first unraveled and tell us what that season of grief and loss felt like for you emotionally and spiritually?
[00:05:09] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So I just. A little background. I'm married to a man named Matt. I have two girls, Maddie and Mackenzie.
You know, lovely, smart mouthed little young ladies.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: But girls can be that way.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So about seven years ago, though, I had always dreamed of having Another baby. I really wanted a third baby. I thought I had my husband talked into it. And then we kind of bartered and made a deal that he could get the vasectomy that he wanted if we could like throw one Hail Mary pass. You know, like, read between the lines, right? So we did that and he got his vasectomy. And about a month after that I had a miscarriage.
And I'm a social worker, I'm a minister. I, you know, work in hospice. I kind of thought I had like grief and loss pretty, pretty figured out.
But when I went through that miscarriage, it like shook me to my core.
And I didn't really know what to do with that grief. I, I just was caught off guard by it. I was grieving the loss in the moment of that baby, but I was also grieving like an entire future of loss. Like that was my last chance to ever have a baby. And so I just, I just didn't know what, what to do with it. And it, it really just like knocked me down for the count. And I'd never experienced a miscarriage before, but it was, it was pretty early in the pregnancy, so nobody had known that I was pregnant. I didn't really even know I was pregnant until I had the miscarriage. So I remember feeling like it wasn't even something I could talk about. Like, I was almost embarrassed that I was even so heartbroken over it. And so it was just like a depth of darkness that I was not prepared to face head on. And I definitely unraveled in all sorts of ways during that time.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: When did you recognize that disconnect from this essentially a secret that you felt like you couldn't share for people and the grief that you had to your relationship with the Lord?
[00:07:19] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. So when all of this happened, I was working in full time ministry. I was actually in seminary getting my Master of Divinity. So I was like, really like the, the best little church girl I, I could be. I was, I was literally saying and doing what I thought were all the right things. And you know, being raised as a pastor's kid, I know that faith has a lot more to do with saying and doing the right things, but. But at that moment it just felt like God had really let me down. And I didn't understand why I was experiencing all of this when I was like walking the path I was supposed to and really even kind of going above and beyond, like I'm, you know, taking Hebrew classes and you know, like, I, I thought I deserved more, which I know is like, not the right mindset at all. But that's. That's how it felt. And then I would go between feeling that, like, feeling abandoned by God, but then also feeling, well, maybe I missed something. Maybe I'm being punished for something that I didn't realize. And I was just sort of like teeter tottering between those two thought processes, both of them, like, super detrimental to a relationship with God. Right. Like, I felt so far from him, I completely lost sight of where he even existed in the story that was taking place. And then on top of that, you know, my husband, bless his heart, didn't understand the grief I was going through either. And I don't think most men do. I don't think most men can because they haven't, you know, carried the baby in their body. And so while separating myself from God, I. I was, like, so separate from my husband too. So I really just like, isolated myself into this depth of grief where I felt abandoned, but was, like, separating myself from everyone too.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Where in that journey did you decide to pursue the Lord again? I have had a miscarriage, and I totally understand.
And it was early, and, like, I didn't feel worthy enough to tell people about it because it was so early, and a lot of people don't even know at that point. And I. I want our listeners to hear that there are people struggling out there that aren't sharing. And you are not alone in this. And so I appreciate your honesty in that, because it is hard to think that you've done something wrong, to think that God is punishing free. Like, you're doing all of these right things. Why I should be having a gold star in Hebrew, A Hebrew star.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: Like, these. These are good things that I'm doing. And this is just. So with all of that in mind, when did you decide to turn that corner to pursue the Lord?
[00:10:09] Speaker B: I really had to hit a rock bottom. Like, there's this psalm that talks about how God, like, pulls us up from the pit, like from the miry clay, and sets us on solid ground. I was in that pit. And I remember it was actually a New Year's Eve, and my husband had ended up in the emergency room and then in the ICU for the stretch between Christmas and New Year's. He had blood clots, and it was like a whole hot mess. And I still really kind of hated him at the time. So it was, like, super complicated. Right? And so I, you know, like, just like a whole lot going on. And I remember picking him up, bringing him home from the hospital on New Year's Eve, and then going back out and sitting in my car in the pitch black and just, like, laying it all out with God and just saying, if everything that I have proclaimed about you is true, then I'm going to need you to show up, and I'm going to need you to, like, show it to me in a way that I'm going to understand. Because I just, like, was at my. My breaking point. And I just didn't know how I could step in to another day, another year, and not understand who God was and if he was actually even there with me. Because I just felt so incredibly alone. And so I just kind of had this, like, really raw and honest. Like, it was not like, a pretty prayer that you would say, like, yeah, in front of anyone. And I just remember kind of, like, letting him have it, like, letting all my anger out, all my sorrow, everything, and then just sort of, like, getting out of my car and going back inside and probably blowing on a party horn and saying, happiness.
Yes. And then, you know, and so I woke up the next day and really just decided to, like, double down on figuring out who God was and if he was actually who I always thought he was and who I was telling other people that he was.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: Like, I was working in ministry, so if I'm gonna, like, say all these things, like, I need to mean it or I. I need to find a new job, you know? And so I remember just that, like, first of the year, kind of opening my Bible, opening up a new notebook, and being like, okay, God, put up or shut up.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: Yes, let's go.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: And. And so I just really intentionally, like, read scripture and would write things down. And then I almost kept this journal of scripture notes and, like, a diary and kind of kept it all together.
And so it was when I started doing that that I really started to see, like, the intertwining of scripture with life.
And God started to come alive for me. And he started to show himself as being present, which he was always there. It was me that was missing him. He was never gone. He had never abandoned me. None of that, but it was. I was so blinded by the grief and loss and the anger and the sorrow and all of that. And he really started to kind of make sure that he was showing up in ways that would catch my attention, that I would understand and that I couldn't ignore.
[00:13:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I love that. I feel like your story is the same as so many women out there, but it's just not spoken that we have those drop down, drag out, fight with the Lord and tell him all the things. And then we brush our hair and we walk into a birthday party or we go to help minister to someone else. Like, we have these hard times that we're going through, but especially as ministry leaders, your funk can't be theirs because they're dealing with their own. And we have to have that relationship with the Lord. And I know that it's hard when you're walking the walk and talking the talk to forget about the relationship part, because it's like doing all of the motions and you're like, oh, my gosh, yeah, of course. The Lord is these things, right?
I love that you've shared this, because sometimes when we have a platform or we have a ministry or we lead a small group, we feel like we have to put on this air of, I have it all together. Nothing's going wrong. I don't need to share it. But inside you're dying, and you're like, questioning the Lord and you're like, well, how could you be a small group leader questioning. How can you have this big platform and question the Lord? It never in the Bible says that he does not want us to question him and it doesn't devalue our faith when we do. I feel like when we have those questions, like you're saying, it builds up that relationship and makes it even stronger because he's not the one that left us. He was there all along. It was us that moved away from Him.
He is never. He is never moving. He is always faithful. And when we give him that opportunity to share his glory, to share his might and his grace and his power, when we give him that opportunity, you're like, he's going to show up and show out. And I. I love that. So is there anything that you pulled out of that, that you implement now, having gone through that?
[00:15:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I do think in general, I'm just much more real in how I live out my faith.
You know, being raised as a pastor's kid and then moving into ministry myself, I do recognize now that it was probably for good intentions. But I put on a facade where I would step into that space as a version of myself that maybe wasn't always the most authentic version.
And it wasn't helpful for me, it wasn't helpful for others. It didn't glorify God in the way that I think I had hoped that it would.
And so I think now, as both a minister and a mom and a wife, and just like a regular person living in the world, I I've closed that gap between, like, religion and real life because it had gotten like, it was like a big, like, gr. Grand Canyon gap. By the time I finally refocused on just genuinely having a relationship with God, I. I realized how far I had gotten from living a real life of faith and was just kind of going through the motions of religion when I needed to. So I do think I have ended up just genuinely showing up in faith, in real life in much more authentic ways. And, And I think that is how we appropriately, like, live life in pursuit of following Christ is when we can be just like normal people. Like that you wait in line with at the grocery store or pump gas next to or, or work in the cubicle next to. And. And we present ourselves differently not because we're putting on a mask, but because we are genuinely just living a life of faith in. In true hope and trust in our Lord and Savior.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that a lot of times we get stuck in that rut of if I'm doing all the right things, I'm saying all the right things, I'm, you know, having. Having X amount of minutes in a quiet time with the Lord outwardly, well, that's all going to show. But really, that relationship piece, and I've talked about that a lot on the podcast here is that relationship piece is what a lot of people are missing. And they're like, well, I just don't get this Christianity thing.
Well, if you are trying to do the things instead of just be with him, which, you know, the, The Bible tells us in the, the New Testament that there, you. There's nothing that you can do to make God love you more. You can't read. You can't read your Bible in Hebrew. Right?
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: You can't know all of the Hebrew things. And he's like, oh, yep, Emily, you got it, girl. You go, you go into the, the girl group, right? Like, he's like, no, Emily, come back to me. I want to speak to you. I want to hear you. I want to be with you in that pit of sorrow and grief. And that relationship piece gets lost a lot. And you're right. If we can just be who Christ wants us to be. Right. If we can just walk out our faith just like Jesus. I mean, when you hear stories in the Bible about Jesus, it wasn't like people went, oh, look, that's Jesus.
He looked like. I mean, they did sometimes because they knew who he was.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: But you know what?
[00:18:44] Speaker A: I mean, he was a normal person. He was a regular person. And then he Started speaking and you're like, oh, what's he got? Right? Right, That's. We, we should be like, that. We should be like Jesus and share those things and those epiphanies that we have and every day. Right. So tell, tell us about everyday epiphanies because I know that you've mentioned it, but tell me what that is. It's such a beautiful phrase.
[00:19:10] Speaker B: Yeah, so like I said, I kind of started this journal where I was just like scribbling down, you know, scriptures and kind of the nonsense from my everyday life. And as it started to kind of come together and intertwine, I sort of felt this push to like, start sharing it that, that I was being told, like, this isn't just for me to kind of keep to myself, which was scary because a lot of it includes my brokenness, my screw ups, my, you know, messy, ugly stuff that, that I don't really care for other people to see.
So I kind of started to put it together and what I, what I realized was that all of this while it includes my messiness, what it did was highlight the character of God and who he genuinely is and how he shows up in our lives. So I did start having these epiphany moments. And so, like, in the, you know, Christian world, we talk about epiphany a lot. Just around Christmas, it's when the wise men kind of followed the star, traveled and found Jesus. But it's called epiphany because when they met Jesus, they instantly had this like, new understanding of who he was.
And so what I realized was I was having kind of these epiphany moments just in my everyday life where it was like I was reading scripture and I was like, oh my gosh, I get it. I see him. I understand.
And so I started to recognize God as this healer, as this guide, as this provider, as this savior and comforter and kind of all of these ways and all of these characteristics of who he is. And so it felt just like these kind of light bulb, aha. Moments kind of all over my everyday life. Just silly, otherwise meaningless stuff. And so I did start to kind of put them together and assembled all of these, I guess, like personal anecdotes intertwined with biblical study and, and put them into this devotional that is called Everyday Epiphany. And that the intention of it is that you can kind of pick it up and maybe see some of yourself in my stories, maybe connect with some of the, the underlying messiness or, you know, just allow you to have an opportunity to, to to really take a look at your own life and then dig into scripture maybe a little bit deeper than you've gone before and connect the dots for yourself in your own life. Because God is who he is yesterday, today, and tomorrow. But he will show up for each of us in different ways. And he has designed each of us to live in different ways. And so I think it's really beautiful when we can kind of figure out who we are and who he is and have our own epiphanies in that.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: I love that.
So what is that? What is an everyday epiphany look like to you on a practical level? On a day. Day to day?
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So for me, it's. It's really just having these moments where I'm sort of just chugging along in my normal day, and I'm either reminded of, like, a scriptural truth that I've read or reminded of, like, a Bible character. And it just kind of has this.
This moment where I'm like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Because I think sometimes when we read scripture, it feels like reading a history book that doesn't quite make any amount of sense in our everyday life. But the truth is that it's like a living, breathing word of God that does transcend time. And so I think when we can kind of have these moments where, you know, something as simple as, like, one time my kids, like, spilled Kool Aid. And it was like I had this moment of just understanding of, like, Christ's sacrifice for us. And it sounds ridiculous, but, like, if you have these moments where these just little kind of mundane things can connect with what you've read in scripture, it just brings it to life, which is what it's meant to be. It's meant to be alive with you and to continue to speak into your life. That's the beauty of scripture. That's the beauty of serving a God who continues to be in us, with us, you know, and kind of guiding us through this world.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Yeah. I have an everyday epiphany. And I call it downloads from the Lord. And it's. And it's in simple things like that. I've actually written devotionals very similar to what, like, your style that you're saying. And it's. And it's just these. These downloads from the Lord where, you know, something will be happening. And Lord's like, hey, that's just like, you. And I'm like, like, I'm sorry, wait, what?
Right? But it brings back, like, oh, hey, remember this in scripture. This is. And it is an epiphany I'm like, oh my goodness, that makes so much sense. But you have to know what the word says. Right?
[00:23:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: To be in the Word and have that daily hide it in your heart, Remember these things so that you can, it can be brought back to you. And I think that's another beautiful thing that the Lord does for us, is that he reminds us of these, these scriptures in our heart that we might not have known that we had in there, you know, And I, I love that. I love that about him.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: It goes so much deeper too, than just like, like, I know you've probably met the people that have a Bible verse for everything, like, if you ever met those people.
And this goes like so much deeper than that.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: Like, it's not just having a Bible verse that you can like slap on like a bumper sticker to a situation. It's, it's. It's really a depth. Like, I recently went apple picking with my kids and I could not shake this feeling as we were like riding the hay wagon back to like our car of this, this reminder of, of like creation, of the creation story in the garden. And so I really started to have this like, deeper understanding of the enemy talking to Eve and saying like, you know, did God really say that? And kind of it like developed into, into this little conversation that I was having with God in my heart, like on a wagon ride.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: So it's like not over spiritualizing your everyday life, but it's allowing your everyday life to be a spiritual experience.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. Oh, that is, that is really good. And I am very glad that I'm not the only one that has those moments. My Lord, my, My husband will ask, he's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, just talk to the Lord. Like, right.
Because it just comes out of random places. But it's because of the work that I've put in before.
Right. Like, that wouldn't happen to me in early Christianity because I didn't have the Word and in my heart and I didn't, I didn't have the, this good relationship with him where he can just bring these things back to me or that ability to tune in and listen. Like you said, he's. He's not moving, he's not changing, he is speaking to us, but that we have to be able to take the moment to listen and really chug away at it. Because you could have thought, oh yeah, those are cool. Those are apples. Yeah, Adam and Eve, they had an apple. That's awesome. Right? And like left it that but you.
You dug in and listened for what the Lord had to share with you. And I think that that's beautiful. So for someone who's in the season of spiritual rebuilding, what helped you to take your first steps toward living with spiritual authenticity and having these everyday epiphanies?
[00:26:30] Speaker B: So for me, it was figuring out how to reconnect both with God and in my marriage. Like, that was just a reality for me. What worked for me was leaning in with conversation with both Jesus and a therapist. I'm a big advocate for having a good therapist in your life along with Jesus Christ. So, I mean, I am a social worker, so. So I will always advocate, you know, for. For good mental health along with a good relationship with God. So for me, I think finding someone who you can speak with, who is tangible in this world, who God has equipped to walk you through difficult circumstances is extremely important. And I think it can be an extremely spiritual practice if you find the right person. Right. If you find the right therapist, counselor, someone who can help you be that presence of God in person for you to really walk through kind of some of those specific circumstances in life. Because fixing that is going to also help you in your relationship with God as well.
[00:27:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: So for me, it did look like going to a therapist. We did couples counseling. I did individual counseling. And it also was really being intentional about my time with God and not just, you know, checking off the box. Like, yes, I had my quiet time. It. It was just really being intentional. And some days that was two minutes, some days that was 20 minutes. Some days it was, you know, two hours spread across the day. Like, I would keep going back to it, but it was. It was really being intentional about connection and fixing what. What I had messed up in this.
In this world, in my relationships, but then also really reconnecting in the ways that I had messed up in my relationship with God too.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: So I would say if you find yourself where you just feel like life is difficult or like faith is difficult, that. That being intentional about talking with someone and repairing what has been broken is. Is really the best first step.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. Emily, thank you so much for being here and sharing so openly with us today. But before we wrap up, I have to ask a question that I ask every guest that I have on here, and it is. What is one perspective that you would encourage listeners to apply today?
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Be okay with being honest. It is scary, but to be honest with God and to be honest with others is the best thing that you can do for yourself. For your relationship with God and even for others too. To be that voice that starts the conversation can be life changing for the people around you. So be brave enough to be honest.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: Yes, well, thank you for your honesty. This has been such a wonderful conversation. And friend, if you are standing in the ashes of something that you thought was unshakable, maybe it's your faith, your plans, your sense of who you are. I hope that this episode reminds you that loss doesn't have to be the end of your story. Sometimes it's the doorway to your everyday epiphany. Would you take a moment to follow this podcast and share it with someone who needs this message today? And friend, if today's conversation stirred something up in you and you thought, I have a story like that too, I'd love to invite you to be a guest on Perspectives into Practice. Your story could be the encouragement that someone else needs. There's a simple form in the show notes. Go check it out. Let's talk. And remember, even small shifts in perspective can lead to big changes. Now go put those perspectives into practice. Talk to you next time.
