Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey, friend. Welcome to Perspectives into Practice, a place where life's stories meet practical wisdom. Together, we'll explore how faith filled perspectives can transform the way we live, love, and grow.
So grab a seat, settle in, and join us on this journey to turn inspiration into action.
Let's dive in.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Hey, friend.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Welcome back to Perspectives into Practice. I am so glad that you're here today, because this conversation will remind you that sometimes God speaks not in grand or dramatic ways, but in tender, quiet moments that can flip entire lives.
I'm here with my new friend, Alisa, someone whose story captures what it means to hear God in the ordinary and actually respond. In our conversation today, we will hear her share a moment she had in her garage back in 2008, when God challenged her to prioritize her marriage via a challenge. That season was about closeness, surrender, and discovering that sometimes the hardest calls are the most redeeming. Welcome, Elisa.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Oh, Jessica. Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be here.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Yes. I'm so glad you're here. Okay, so before we get into the good stuff, y' all know I love a fun fact, and Elisa's fun fact is that she skipped kindergarten and graduated high school at age 16, which is absolutely amazing. And I have to ask, were you homeschooled?
[00:01:37] Speaker B: I was not. Wow. My dad was a speech therapist and got me reading at a very early age. I was. At that point in time, I was in.
We lived in Baltimore, Maryland. I was in the public schools there. He got me tested, and I still remember to this day at 51, walking from my little kindergarten classroom where I was there for two weeks, to the first grade classroom and just feeling like I was with all the big kids. Yes.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: Which could be intimidating. But, you know, they. They say that girls go through school like they're made for school and it's easier for us, which. Nice. That's amazing.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Well, I will say it's a weird spot, always being the youngest.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: Oh, sure.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: So even though, like, from an academic standpoint, but that, like, I was always the late bloomer because clearly a year to two years behind most of my classmates. So the maturity factor, academically. Yes, maturity. I'm like, I don't know if I would have done it. Fortunately, I was never put in that position with my own kids.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: I had that opportunity with my oldest. He is a December baby, and I knew that boys needed a little extra time anyway, but they were like, well, you know, he's close enough if you want to put him in. And I was like, no, he can wait a whole nother year. And I'm so thankful that I did that, because there's no way that he would have, like, truly now knowing all of his. His own learning things. There's no way he would have. No. But now we homeschool, so it doesn't even matter. So he's on his own.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: That's it.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Wow. All right, well, let's dive in. So from accelerated academics to spiritual acceleration, your story of hearing God in your garages. Honestly, one that I can't wait to unpack. So thank you for trusting us with this time, and I'd love for you to just take us back to that moment in 2008. What was life just before that moment? And where were you emotionally, relationally, spiritually.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: At that point in time? My husband Tony and I had been married for 11 years. We had two little kids, 2 and 5. We were. We were in the trenches with potty training and kindergarten. And, you know, my joke back then was I was either covered in art projects or crumbs or maybe a runny nose, because being. Staying at home with my children, having that privilege, just meant that I was very much into the mom mode all the time. And Tony and I were really disconnected between our two. We had lost a child. I delivered our little son Andrew, at 18 weeks. And so we were just. We've gotten to be decent roommates, handling the logistics of lives, keeping our kids alive.
Know, he had his own business, and so we were doing all these things, but our marriage had taken such a backseat, and we just, Like I said, we were kind of good roommates for the. From, like, handling logistics, like, hey, we pick up the milk, or, you know, the vacuum. You know, the living room needs to be vacuumed. But as far as having a marriage, something that anybody would want to look at and go, wow, I want to be like them. Not even close.
And we were getting ready to lead a small group at our church, and Tony calls me one day, and he's like, I think. I think we should do our small group study on sex. Yeah, I'll tell you. I looked at the phone, and I'm just like, we aren't having sex. Like, what are you talking about? What are we going to talk about? And I was snarky and irritated and probably covered in literally God only knows what. And I said, well, just find me a book. Find me a book. And, you know, he sprints to a bookstore, finds the book, intimacy ignited.
But then that night, we Were watching a Good morning America segment. Some friends of ours, their kids want it for beach tennis. And these two couples had done these beach or sex challenges after that. And so we were watching this and Tony's like, well, you know, our small group study is going to be eight weeks. What if we did, you know, like, we rounded up, that's about 60 days. What if we did a 60 day sex challenge? And I was just like, no. I remember looking him, I'm like, I don't want any part of this. I don't feel connected to you. This is not. I have two little kids. Who's got time for sex? Like, that was really where I was at.
And I got up and for the first and only time in my marriage, we've now been married 29 years, I went to the bathroom and I put on this fabulously green avocado looking face mask.
I had never to that point in time ever used a face mask situation. Since then, I've never put a face in it. I don't even know. Like, I look back, I'm like, I don't know.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Where'd it come from?
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So he goes to bed feeling rejected again. I go to bed thinking I've dodged another bullet.
And the next day he goes to work and in my garage, the basket full of laundry. And I, I can still. I mean, this was 2008. I can still imagine just where I was standing in the garage. I can see the basket of laundry in my hand.
And I heard the voice of God say, are you not really willing to try? I was like, yeah, try what?
Yeah. And I start getting into this dialogue with God and, you know, it's this whole conversation about, are you not willing to put, you know, to like, think about what Tony said? And I'm like, I've told girlfriends this story over the years. I'm like, I should know better than to wrestle with God. Because the Bible is pretty full of stories where it doesn't work out so well for you when you try to wrestle with God. And so I started having this whole, like, yeah, but, you know, I've got these little kids and I don't really like them right now. And all these types of things. He says, if you're not willing to try, your marriage is not going to last. And I just remember feeling the weight of that statement and in that place, just being in surrender. All right, what does it look like to make our marriage a priority for 60 days?
What will that look like for us?
[00:07:13] Speaker A: Wow. Wow. When your marriage was more than a roommate Than a spouse. You said no at first. So how did you actually move from that no to a yes? What did that conversation look like?
[00:07:28] Speaker B: That conversation was funny because, like, I. I had the afternoon Tony was out working.
So I start kind of formulating, okay, how am I going to tell him? What's this going to look like? And I remember he walks in the door, and I just, like, I run up, and you would have thought it was, like, giving him the best Christmas present. I think I'm just, you know, wife of the year material. And I run up to him, like, okay, I thought about what you said, and I'm in. I'm ready. Let's do this. And he looks at me. And rejection had been so much a part of our marriage, and specifically rejection for me when it came to sexual intimacy for, like, a lot of those early years, that once I had said no the night before, he had just moved on. He's like, okay, like, yeah, it's not going to happen. I don't even need to think about this anymore. And so when he comes home and I'm all excited, I say yes. And he's like, I don't even know what you're talking about.
And in my head, I'm thinking, It was just 24 hours ago. Yeah.
How could you have forgotten so easily?
But it took him a minute to get caught up. And then he's so funny because we've talked about this many, many times over the years. He's like, I just went into full panic mode going, I don't know what that's going to look like for me as a man for 60 days. Like, what can I will. I, like, yeah. She was like, I thought she. I actually thought she was going to say no. So we took that moment, and a lot of people may hear the story and go, oh, it's just about having sex. And that was the catalyst for us to learn. What does it look like to let the little things slide? What does it look, you know, what's up? Don't sweat the small.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: What does it look like to say, I'm going to put your needs ahead of mine? What does it look like to say, okay, God, like, I'm going to invite you in. Like, truly invite you in, because there's no way we complete 40 out of 60 days. There is no way that happened. Yeah. Without God.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Yeah, man. So it. It sounds like it came a surrender point. So it's a shift in that position. And it makes me wonder, which I know that you guys do a lot of things Together in, in your speaking. But it makes me wonder like when he heard you say no, do you know what did he process through that? Was it just when he asked did he know that you were going to say no? And so it was just like a one last, one last disc effort or what. What was his side?
[00:09:50] Speaker B: Well, he is the eternal optimist. I mean he's definitely like in terms of our personalities, Tony Ayers, way more on the side of optimism. I'm definitely much more of a pessimist. And so, you know, he thought, well, I've got nothing to lose. I don't think she'll say yes. But you know, maybe. Yeah. And so when I said no, it was really a place of, yeah. Not unexpected.
I'm just going to roll over and go to sleep and you know, get up tomorrow and do another day. And there was, you know, I realized now and I realized during that, that 60 day window when we were engaging in this, just how much all of the times that I had said no, how much all of that rejection when it came not just to our sexual intimacy, but, you know, like, I'm going to take care of the kids, I'm going to put the kids first or I'm going to, you know, I just don't want to spend time with you. All the things I did when we were dating and I had become very self centered, self focused, you know, focused on being a mom. And I had forgotten the order of things. I had forgotten God, first spouse and then children and had really inverted that. And so that whole window of time reordered our life, put him under God because we were praying. I mean, I've got multiple, multiple stories during that window where I'm like, okay, God, I don't know if I can do this. I'm like, I need desire. You've got to be the one to give me the desire. Because we're still going.
And that happened a few times during. But it was this reordering of our marriage. Yeah. That. That shifted everything. That had us liking one another again and laughing with one another. But it was like you said, it was that surrender of going, okay, God, like show me how to make my.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Marriage first or second only to sure, yeah, yeah, well. And I think a lot of times we miss that in marriage is that it is. Does seem more transactional than relational.
And it can be easy to fall into those traps, especially when you have children because you're doing all of the right things. It wasn't that you were being wrong in what you were doing. It Just wasn't in the right order.
And I think a lot of times we need to stop and step back. And I love that the Lord gave you that opportunity to do that. And now, of course, you talk about it, tell others about that. But how did that look practically after that season of commitment? What did that look like in your marriage and what shifted in you?
[00:12:11] Speaker B: So in our marriage. So we came out of that 60 days. We actually took a month off. I'm like, I just. Like, I need to break.
And then January of the following year, so that would have been January of 20 2009. We had a very candid conversation. How are we going to prioritize sexual intimacy? How are we going to prioritize our marriage and getting to the point where. Where we put one another on our calendars.
So whether it's date night or we're going to make time for a conversation, or we're. I mean, we've done what we call the intimacy lifestyle, which is scheduling sex. Not. I like to tell people, not down to the minute, but days of the week, that type of thing. So for, you know, since 2009, and so we have these. We have these moments on our calendar that say, you're important, that say you matter enough that I'm not going to leave it to chance that you and I are going to have time because my kids get space on my calendar if they've got appointments and games. My, you know, if I'm trying to do a doctor's appointment, if I'm trying to grab coffee with a girl, like all of these other people have placements on my calendar. And Tony didn't. He's like, yeah, yeah, we don't have anything else going on. Then I'll hang out with you if, you know, if we can get a date in a month. Yeah. Especially with the kids, we're gonna. I'll hang out with you.
And so that was the big shift in the relationship. And with me, I started to see how my husband flourished when he knew that I was 100% engaging with him, that he was a priority. It shifted.
I remember I. I still. This is such a funny thing. Our kids were little. I was staying at home with them by choice on both sides. And I remember, like, every night it was the dishes, right. I'm like, it would just be really nice if you do the dishes. And so we're about 10 days in. I remember I. I put our kids to bed. He. I was putting our daughter to bed. He put our son to bed. And I came out and I Looked at the kitchen and I just remember looking around, just going, did the. Did the dishes dairy come? Because my. My dishes are done. And he just looked at me and he had this grin and he's like, I knew it would help you if I did the dishes. And it was because I had been investing in him and in the relationship again, that he started to see again. Where were those areas where he could help me, help lighten my load. It wasn't demanding. I wasn't nagging him. I wasn't doing all of those, like, not great wife things. I was just saying, hey, I love you enough. I just prefer not to do the dishes at nine o' clock in the. Yeah. He's like, I can do that.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: And then you want something from me after I've spent all of me all day.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
And so it's like, I can lighten her load and it'll be easier for us to connect. And that is something that has carried. I mean, Again, this was 16, right about now. 16 years ago or 17 years. 17, 2008. And so I look at that and that those patterns have, like, he still is a tremendous partner in our household in terms of whatever needs to be done. He's got eyes to see it. Beautiful. And it's not a push and pull. Oh, I have to beg you to do stuff. It's like, no, we are. We are teammates. And that really shifted in that season.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: If someone. Because I. I heard you talk about date night, so I. I know that a lot of people go on date nights to increase intimacy in a relationship. What have you found that actually helps with those date nights? Not just going to a restaurant and coming home. That's not a date night. That's a dinner.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
What would you recommend for that? Yes.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: I think it's really. There are a couple of things I think are really important. One is getting away from all of our electronics to the best of our abilities. I know there are going to be some people listening to this where they've got little ones. And so you need access to a babysitter. Yeah. Yes, I hear you. Keep your phone on you, but it doesn't need to be out all the time. Keep it on vibrate, Keep it in the pocket. If you need it, the babysitter will call, call you, whatever. Get out and get moving. Right. You don't need to be sitting in a movie theater or a restaurant.
[00:16:04] Speaker A: Go for.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: Go for a hike, go for a walk on the beach, go for a walk in the park. Get out and go ax throwing or what do something that has the two of you engaging with whatever the activity is and one another.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Because it's too easy, it's too easy with the phones. And like you said, going out to dinner to just be like, yeah, we're here, but you're not connected.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: No.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: And that's, that's what we so desperately crave at this. We crave being known, we crave being seen, we crave connection.
And yet, and you, I'm sure you've been in those restaurants where you look over at a couple and you're like, wow, two phones went out to dinner and they brought their people with. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: And it breaks my heart because I'm like, if you just put that down, you'd actually get to know one another. You could ask those questions, bring, you know, one of the, they have so many conversation starter cards that you can just have conversation and talk and that I heard a, a statistic and it said, and I can't remember the exact amount of minutes, but it was so ridiculous. It was like, let's say 35 minutes a week is how much time spouses actually talk.
I'm sorry, a week that I, I, I literally can't fathom that because we talk all the time. Sometimes I wish we would both just stop talking, but we talk so much about everything.
I can't imagine only having 35 minutes of intentional time per week in seven days with my spouse. This doesn't account for, you know, schedules or children or that that is like intentional time. 35 minutes. It breaks my heart. It, it really does.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: And if you think about that, I mean, over seven days, that's five minutes a day. How well can you know someone, what their current fears are, what their hopes are, what they're dreaming about right now? Because I mean, Tony and I met 31 years ago. We've married for 29 years. I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 21 year old man that I met and fell in love with was vastly different than the 52 year old man that I am now.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah. What his burdens are, what he worries about, what his joys are. You know, that college guy, vastly different from father of two, business owner and that type of thing. And if we don't, if we don't make knowing our spouse now, whatever now is for the two of you, however long you've been married, as you're listening to this, if we don't stay curious about them, then everything starts to fade and just kind of over time you feel disconnected and it makes it so much easier to just throw up your hands and be like, what is this?
But I'm often reminded of, you know, Genesis 2 when it talks about 2:24, when it talks about the two shall become one. That wasn't just. That wasn't just a command for our wedding day.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: It's really a command for our entire married life. Like, are we, are our actions contributing to our oneness? Or was that just like a nice phrase? Yeah. Or the fancy dress and the tuxedo. Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: But also, I don't believe that it was just for an actual physical marriage, but also spiritual, intimate, like life long to become one, not just in sex, which I think a lot of people think that way is. Oh, yes, two. Two people come together. They, you know, consummate their marriage and. And now they are one. But it's not that. It's like mind, body, soul, life, everything.
And it can be very easy to slip into that path of not caring, not asking, not being inquisitive. And it's a slippery slope. It's a slippery slope. So you might be still married and you might sleep in the same bed, but like you said, you were great roommates, but that's not what the Lord called. Called y' all to be.
So my. I have my question. 17 years down the road, you've seen the fruit from that garage decision.
So practices have shifted, seasons have evolved. How do you continue to make marriage a priority when all of these seasons are getting busy, your children are coming around, they're getting older, and life throws curveballs? How do you surrender continually in your marriage in that time?
[00:20:32] Speaker B: That's such a great question. Because we now have two adult children.
They are now so crazy. To say that that 2 and 5 year old are now 19 and 22 is just, wow.
And they both live with us and so, you know, during their seasons of college and whatnot. So we've got adult children living. Oh, we have to choose.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: On a daily basis, we have to choose our marriage. We still put one another on the calendar.
We still make time without our phones. And it is harder because they have become more, more prevalent than ever. I mean, like, we got married so long ago that people didn't have cell phones. We got married in 96. Right. Like we are, we are pre cell phone marriage. Yeah. Which is just such a crazy thing to say. But learning to put the phones down, learning to still be intentional when it comes to our sexual intimacy, when we have a conversation every week, hey, what does your week look like? What's my week look like? What are the best days for us? Yes, and we're having that. We are putting dates on the calendar, like what we started doing in 2008, 2009. We've just flexed that muscle for the last 17 years. And you know, I, I'm, I'm nobody special. I've just done a whole lot of rest.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: That's amazing. So for listeners who feel that their marriage is stuck in sameness or distance, what's a first step, a small step than they can take to really lean into this oneness that they are supposed to have in marriage?
[00:21:57] Speaker B: I would, coming back to your 35 minutes a week, I would encourage them to Maybe look for 15 minutes a day to have a conversation and get those conversation starters. And don't start with trying to do it every day because you'll just feel overwhelmed. But what if twice this week you got a 15 minute conversation? And to your point, Amazon is chock full of conversation cards. There are so many on there.
There are all kinds of ones that I said, like table talks Topics has got 188 great questions for husbands and wives. But get a couple because the biggest hurdle I think for a lot of individuals and couples to getting the conversation started is I don't know what to ask.
I don't like. We only talk about logistics and the bills and the kids because that's all like we've just fallen into that front where you get a question that says, one of the ones I remember is what is your most significant memory of your wedding day besides exchanging your vows? Yeah, Tony and I pulled that question out of a deck and we spent 45 minutes on our significant memories, well above the 35 minutes that couples are averaging. The other thing I would say to that is if you can get outside of your house, your living room, your bedroom, or where you normally have the conversation, go for a walk situation, sit on a park bench, go to a coffee shop and do it there. The change in atmosphere will change how the two of you interact with one another 100%. I believe that.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: And when I have two boy children and I have done, you know, a lot of research and figuring out how do I get them to talk to me. Right. And now boys, I'm married. Right. He's still a boy.
And the best way that boys or men talk is shoulder to shoulder.
And so, and it, so it's not like us women were like, look into my eyes. And no, that is not there. There's some men that, that can do that way. But just for as in general. And so, yeah, walking, getting your. Your heart rate and. And looking at things and it's bringing up different.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: Different.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: It. It's a lot less intimidating when you aren't in your normal place, because if you have had a conversation or an argument in a car, why would you want to go there? That's not a safe space for in that moment right now. So if you go outside to where it's neutral and have that conversation shoulder to shoulder, it is amazing the things that will come out of your husband's mouth when you're. When you're really there.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: I couldn't agree more. We call that as our walk and talk.
And a lot of our husbands will played sports, and so they're used to knowing, hey, I'm on the same team. Our son played football.
He was a defensive lineman, so he knew that the guys that he was shoulder to shoulder with all had the same goal and they were there to protect one another against the enemy. The other team. Yeah. When we act like that with our husbands, it reminds them we're on the same team. Whatever the problem is, we are facing it together and we've got each other's back. It's the same mentality. It doesn't matter if they're five and playing little, you know, little league, you know, peewee football, or if they're 45 and we're talking about something in marriage. If we can create that same atmosphere, their ability to open up and meet us emotionally is radically different. Absolutely.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: It so is. And that's a great point is that when I know that sometimes when we have arguments or like, he's on a different page, and so we just feel like we're headbutting and I just stop and go. We're on the same team. It's not you against me. It's us against the world. It's us against the enemy that is trying to bring division upon this.
And. And it's like there's a whole shift in the atmosphere when you finally bring that to light that we are on the same team. Us against them, bro.
Yeah.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: Elisa, thank you so much for your willingness to share your boldness in obedience to continue this journey.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: Journey.
[00:25:53] Speaker A: And for showing us that in the most ordinary spaces that it can really hold divine invitations. So before we close, I want to ask you a question that I ask every guest here on the podcast. That is, what is one perspective that you would encourage listeners to apply today?
[00:26:10] Speaker B: I would say be intentional and take action.
Whatever has resonated with you out of this episode, choose one way that you can be intentional about it and take action. Don't wait for don't wait for a kind of great day. Don't wait for the stars to align or you know him to be smiling. Just be intentional and take action.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: Oof. That's powerful. I love that. Wow, Elisa. Thank you so much friend. If you are listening and your marriage feels more transactional, distant, or worn, you are not alone. But God still invites. He still speaks. He still offers a path to deeper connection with him and with your spouse. Marriage was made to mirror God's covenant. Steadfast, forgiving, and full of grace. And it was never meant to just survive. It was meant to reflect Him. When two hearts surrender to God, even the coldest seasons can spark again. So don't give up, even if all you can offer today is a small yes, trust that God can breathe new life into what feels ordinary.
He's not finished writing your story, and neither is your marriage. If today's conversation stirred something in you, maybe a memory, a moment, or a story that you have of your own, I'd love to hear about it. Perspectives Into Practice is a place for women to share how God meets us in the middle of real life. So you can apply to be a guest. I've got a link in my show notes.
Remember, even small shifts in perspective can lead to big changes. Now go put those perspectives into practice. Talk to you next time.
