Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey, friend. Welcome to Perspectives into Practice, a place where life's stories meet practical wisdom. Together, we'll explore how faith filled perspectives can transform the way we live, love and grow.
So grab a seat, settle in, and join us on this journey to turn inspiration into action.
Let's dive in foreign.
Hey, friend. Welcome back to part two of our conversation with Christina on honoring your parents after pain. If you haven't listened to part one, I encourage you to go back because it really sets the stage here. This next segment picks up with Christina asking me some deeply personal questions, like what unconditional love means to me and how I hope to raise my children with grace and truth.
Together, we also explore what it means to create boundaries that protect our well being while still reflecting God's heart. Let's jump back in.
I think that unconditional love is a mutual respect and that I am going to love you no matter what. On your worst days, on your best days, I am here for you and I'm rooting for you. And there is. There's nothing that you can do to mess up that love. Even if that means that we're arguing or if that means that we need time away or that means that we don't see eye to eye. I still love you. And that's okay. Your. Your choices and your decisions that are made, I can love you through that and we can. We can get through it together. So I think unconditional love is that. Is that we're a team.
And teams work together through the thick and thin.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: You're giving me chills. You're giving me the goose pimples. Because I know you mean it. Because I know you and I know that you mean it. And I know you stand by that. You're not just someone giving the a crazy answer because you think it's the right answer.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: No, that's what I think. That's what my heart says.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
[00:02:10] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for asking these. It's like the tables have turned on this podcast.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Would you love to hear these answers?
[00:02:20] Speaker A: I would. I would. Yes, please.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: So after I gave my parents a half hour to think about it, my mom's answer was laying down your life for others, which of course is the biblical answer. When God says, this is love, that I lay down my life for my friends.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: But then what does that mean?
[00:02:40] Speaker B: She did not know. She did not know. So I. I allow my parents to not know. I do not have to pressure them. This is what I have learned, is I allow them not to know. Sometimes. So I just let that be.
[00:02:50] Speaker A: Yes. And when someone is told something, this is the. The thing that you do, and there are no questions to it. When you're asked a question and they. I don't think that they actually know because it's so ingrained in their mind that this is supposed to be the right answer. I can't think for myself.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: Yes, it's true. It's true. The same church I was raised in, my parents were raised in. So they have a lot of the same trauma I have.
[00:03:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: They can recognize the trauma their parents gave them in the church, but they can't recognize the trauma they gave me in that church. Don't like that. Yeah. However, my dad's response at first was, it would be like, I visit you when you're in jail. That was the first answer. And then I said, okay, sure. Okay. And then he thought about it a little while, and he goes, no, no, no, no. I have a better. I have a better one. Unconditional love is a cat getting in your lap. And all of a sudden, Jessica, all of a sudden, I understood very acutely why I struggle with unconditional love.
It's because my parents have no idea what it is. They have no clue. And they're in their 60s, and how in the world could I ever expect them to know it in their 20s when they were raising me? But I cannot control them. So they do not know. They do not know. They do not know. Therefore, they did not teach it.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: That is fascinating.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: So in the. The collection of answers that I'm getting from people about unconditional love, are you ready for your mind to be blown? Because this is just so succinct. And this one was from my beautiful, wonderful husband, who understands love much more than I do. He said, your actions have consequences, but a consequence of your actions will never be me removing my love from you.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: Yes. Now I'm like, wow, great words.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: I know this wisdom.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: This wise, beautiful man that has been given to me, that challenges me, makes me want to roll my eyes. So perfect. I know.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: I know.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: It makes sense, right? Yeah, that's what I said.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Just different words with girly words. Well.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: And you know what.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: What kind of like is. Is heartbreaking with that? Is that one in. If you take their definitions. Because we've. We've talked about these things, Right. If you take their definitions of what that means and then put yourself in that position, when was the last time that you laid in their lap?
And second of all, when was the last time you were in Jail.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: The last time I was in jail was earlier this year because I jaywalked.
So. So these kinds of people, right, so. So Jesus even in his ministry says that we should avoid these types of people that are abusive, that are they don't have any love in them. We are supposed to avoid those people. But in, in that scripture in second Timothy, he also in the same breath says that we should also avoid people who are disobedient to their parents and refuse to forgive.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: So that's a double edged sword. You're supposed to not be with the abusers, but also honor your parents even though they're abusive. Yeah.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Forgive. Forgive and do not curse.
Forgive 70 times, seven times, AKA every single time. They repent. Yes. And then my black and white personality is like, what if they don't repent then do we still have to forgive them? Yes.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: Here is my other side for that is that we are not responsible for our parents choices. We are not responsible for their disobedience to the commandments and to what the Lord has said to us.
We are responsible for our actions and how we obey what the Lord has asked us us to do. We are in that vein is very challenging to uphold that I can imagine. If you are being abused yet you are still called to respect and obey your parents.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: It's this pleasing versus biblical honoring. Right? So if my parents are expecting me to please them, then they are expecting me to not necessarily have ownership over their choices, but I have to take ownership over all of my choices. And how that affects them emotionally and physically is all my fault. All of it has nothing to do with how they perceive it, has nothing to do with their past traumas, has nothing to do with them. I have to change my behavior in order to please them because it is commanded of me. You see. Okay, so let's get out of Christina land and go into biblical land. Okay, so this is what I like to do when I don't have any clue. I say what did Jesus do?
So what did he do?
[00:07:46] Speaker A: It's like you grew up in the 90s.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: I know. Almost.
I know. Gosh. Do you remember when they made the rainbow bracelets and people were like fussy that it was a rainbow bracelet? Wwjd. And I'm like, but it's rainbow and I love the rainbow.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: I do.
Fun fact. I have six different colors of the WWJD bracelets in, in my jewelry box right now.
[00:08:06] Speaker B: That makes me so happy. Are they, are they legit though? Are they from ye of old?
[00:08:11] Speaker A: Yes, they are.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: And how Much dirt is on them.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: They look brand new.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: They're pristine. Somehow that doesn't surprise me.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: They are. And they're rolled in a little bun and. Oh, yes, ma'. Am.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: I can just. I can literally, as we're saying this, I can feel myself threading the end of the bracelet thread through the little buckle. I feel it. And you had to flip it upside down when you were doing it and then flip it back the other way so that the. The little tail was tucked underneath.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: Exactly, yes.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: And people who didn't know that had the tails out. And we do not associate with those people.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Those are probably people listening who have absolutely no idea what we're talking about.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: Well, back before social media, we judged people on how they wore their bracelets.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: So ye shall not judge. But that is what we did.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: That's what we did.
Yeah. Okay, so.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Okay, so back in the Bible land, what did Jesus do?
[00:09:13] Speaker B: Yes. How. How did he.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: How did he honor his.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: How did he interact with his parents? Like, yeah, there are not that many interactions with his parents that stick out to me. What are the ones. What are the ones that stick out to you? I'm curious of Jesus interacting with his.
[00:09:28] Speaker A: Parents, or do you want me to give one?
[00:09:31] Speaker B: Do you want to go back and forth?
[00:09:32] Speaker A: Well, no. Well, yeah, we can. Yeah, but the one when you. Immediately when you said that was when he goes to the synagogue to teach, and they're like, days off, days off, and they have to come all the way. It's not like they were just, like, in their little car and could drive back. Like, this is herds of people, all the cattle, like, all.
And they had to come back. And they're like, dude, what are you doing? Why are you here? And he's like, oh, hey, mom, just preaching.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: Preaching the word, huh? That was Passover. So for Passover, I think he was like 13, maybe 12 years old is what the scholars say. So here's some fun things that I've. Because I looked into this one. So what would it take for you not to miss a child for this many days? I think to myself that probably means they did not have to keep him under their thumb. Right? He is God incarnate. So he is honoring them because he is keeping this commandment, right? So he is obedient to them. And he.
They don't have to watch him. Like, they know he's good. They don't gotta watch him.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: However, on the other side of that is that because he is fully man and fully God, he is honoring God the Father in his obedience. In teaching the Word.
So it's exactly, kind of goes higher there.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: Exactly it. So this is an example of God, through Jesus showing us that obedience to God supersedes obedience to your parents or pleasing your parents.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: All the time, Every single moment.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: You see, well, that's, that's even different because pleasing them is, is a, a human selfish way. And honor is what God has asked of us.
So even in that, it's still going to what the Lord has asked us to do. So what were the other.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: So in addition to this Passover incident, another one. And I talked to my mom in law about this, who I'm so grateful for her that she's able to be curious with me about scripture. Like she doesn't judge me or she doesn't try to school me on such things. She's just like, what a great question. Let's think about that for a little while. And it's excellent. So one that she thought of was the moment when he's at the wedding with his mother.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: That was my second. Yeah.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Yes. At the wedding with his mother. And she says to him, they have no more wine. And so my mom in law, when we're talking about this, she's like, was she just a fussy mom? Was Mary fussy? Like, what is this? And I told you that's why I love her, is that she's able to be curious and ask these kinds of questions without, you know, repercussions. And so I did a little research into it. And specifically the wording is important. Right. And in scripture, wording is important. It is intentional. So she does not come to Jesus and say, get me more wine.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: She says, they have no more wine. And this isn't reflective upon her. Like she is not in charge of the wine. It is the family's responsibility.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: For this. So she is looking out for that family. She is not being selfish.
She is trying to be giving and loving towards this family so they will not be embarrassed that they have run out of provisions for this big celebration.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: That is a God honoring tradition.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Exactly. It is something God put into place.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Marriage, family systems. So she comes to him knowing that he can do something, knowing he is able. And his response, you remember his response.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: To her is, go get the servants.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: To go find the job. Yes. So. So before he solves the problem, he says something like, what is this to me? My time is not yet come.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Yes. You know, and in my mind I think he's being rude. Like, okay, so they don't have wine. I think that was his fully man way of telling her this. There are two different things here. But I'm going to let you think about this for a second. But also I'm fully God, so I can make it happen.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: But also remember and I wonder if this was going through his head knowing that once he performed his first miracle, because this was his first miracle, that it was going to start the road to his death. Like he knew that. I wonder if there was hesitation there because this was going to be it.
This is the beginning of the end.
And does he do this for Mary out of honoring Mary, out of honoring marriage or to honor her faith because she had faith that he would fix it? Like, I don't know. I wasn't able to find that answer.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. So good. I love asking questions. I know even if I don't always get the answer, it's still because questions, they're valid. All questions are valid. They might not be good questions, but they're valid and so nice.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: It brings up just of course, this overwhelming arch all throughout the Bible for you and I and other people who are factual based that we may not understand why God does things.
And we do not have to understand why.
We just know what happened. What happened is he provided wine for the celebration is what he did.
So that's one example of Jesus with his parents. Another one, this one is super obscure because it happens only in John's version of the Gospel. Yes.
And this actually we went over it in church on Sunday. I was like, hey, this is neat. So they word of Jesus's ministry gets back to his parents and they're worried for him. They're worried. And they actually say he is out of his mind. That is what is printed in John chapter two. He's out of his mind. We have to go get him. So out of preservation and love, I'm sure his mother comes to get him and his brothers come to get him.
And then you may remember Jesus said this. So he's out and he's preaching with this huge crowd, I'm sure, because who isn't around Jesus and all these gotta have this huge crowd. And his follower, one of his disciples comes to him and says, hey, your mother and brothers are here. And he says, who are my mothers and brothers? You are my mothers and brothers. Everyone who is here doing God's will.
[00:15:49] Speaker A: And that's family. Yeah.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: Yes. Is that a slap in the face? Is that not pleasing his mother, but honoring his heavenly Father by doing his ministry?
And even if it does not make his mom happy, you know, is this an example that we need?
[00:16:08] Speaker A: Probably, yeah. Because we are sons and daughters of Christ. We are in the family. And while he was fully human, so he did have an actual human mother and father, he was fully God. So. Yeah. Wow. I love conversations with you.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: God's was always, always, always more important than our parents as well. But we're not taught that growing up. Right. It is human versus heavenly. But we're taught that our parents will is the end all beat all. But the reason we're taught that is because our parents are supposed to grow us up in the knowledge and the fear of the Lord.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: So they are the established authority from God to teach us these things, which is why their will is so important. However we grow up.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: We do.
We do. I believe that when God has given us these parents to teach us biblical principles, we're also learning boundaries and we have to create these boundaries. And sometimes boundaries are not fun when they are instituted properly.
So are there practical boundaries that you have put in place that still honor God, but protect your emotional well being in. In this battle of human versus heavenly honor?
[00:17:24] Speaker B: Well, first I had to learn what a boundary is.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: A boundary is not me telling my parents, you can't do this.
A boundary is me telling my parents, if you do this, my reaction will be, yeah. And alerting them that my reaction may not be something they want.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: So, yes, I've put boundaries on the amount of time I can spend with my parents.
And that is because when, when I'm around them for a certain amount of time, I become enmeshed into their family system again.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: And so the boundary is if you try to enmesh me, I will leave.
If you try to pull me back into this belief that everything I say or do impacts you. And I have to think about you over my well being now that I'm 40 years old. It. And you are very capable of taking care of yourself, by the way. I will leave. It will be time for me to go.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: I've had to set boundaries of, if you like, specifically to my mom. If you talk to me about something that you should be talking to a therapist about, I will tell you to talk to a therapist. I will not be your therapist.
She went through a very, very traumatic childhood and it is not my story to tell, but when she comes to me in tears, in real, genuine tears about something that was terrible, I cannot get involved. I can't do it. I am not that person for her. I am her child. I am. I am not her therapist. I Am not her best friend. Right.
If one of them comes to me, another example of a boundary. If one of them comes to me and says something negative about a family member, I will hang up the phone. I will not listen to that. It is not healthy for either of us. It is not good for you to ruminate on negativity. It is not good for me to know how things have negatively affected you because now it alters my perception of that family member.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: Oh sure, yeah.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: It's not good for anyone. My, my grandmother who just passed away recently, I only only in the past last year of her life realized that she was an example of unconditional love to me.
But I didn't know because she was talked so poorly about and I had a very bad perception of her that had nothing to do with my interactions with her and everything to do with my parents reinteractions with her. And I think when, in my experience, when I have continually enforced these kinds of boundaries, my parents will take what they can get. They will realize, okay, our daughter will be with us for two days. We will enjoy these two days. I will be grateful that she is here. Oh, my daughter is going to call us. The phone call is going to be for 10 minutes. I will call you once a week for 10 minutes. We will be happy that we are talking to you because some people, and I'll tell you, I've been to both secular and sacred therapists and if you go to a secular therapist with your story, with my story, they will say cut them out. Do not have anything to do with that person. Nothing. And that's not biblical.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: No.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: The, the commandments in the Bible about forgiveness are much more black and white than honoring your parents for me. So I know that if I'm unclear on honoring my parents, I am very clear that I have to forgive them.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And you know, and you were saying that the gray area in that commandment. But you're right, they. God gives us very black and white answers to. But what if.
Forgive. But what if.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: That's. That's it. Yeah. How can we teach those with children about biblical honor in a trauma aware, grace filled way?
[00:21:26] Speaker B: Beautiful, beautiful, trauma aware, grace filled. We need more of that everywhere. This is a great point for me to come back to your. They did as good as they could.
So let's say me and you are getting together, I'm driving you to lunch. We're going to go have a very nice delicious vegetable lunch and we get into an accident and you get hurt. You get very hurt. You have to go to the hospital. You have to go to physical therapy. It's a bad situation.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: It was not my intention to hurt you. Maybe it wasn't even my fault to get into the accident. And guess what, Jessica? I did my best.
I absolutely, absolutely did my best in this situation for no one to get hurt and to not get in an accident. But it happened.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: So you will behave differently around me. You may not get in the car with me. You know, you may think twice before we go on any kind of excursion where I'm driving.
And maybe you may even limit your interactions with me, especially if I do not genuinely apologize. If I do not genuinely apologize to you without blaming others, without giving an excuse, without saying I did my best, without saying it wasn't my fault. If I do not acknowledge blame and say I am so sorry this happened to you and that I caused it, I am sorry. Please forgive me. I love you and I want to work through it. If parents who have adult children could give that kind of apology to them, that could be the first step to really healing your relationship. Because.
[00:23:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: And hear me when I say this, they are not a perfect parent. But on the other side of the coin, we are not perfect kids. And if we are not perfect kids, we cannot forgive perfectly. You cannot perform perfectly. We cannot forgive perfectly. We have our own issues.
We have buried hostility, buried resentment.
So you cannot expect us to forgive without an authentic apology.
[00:23:30] Speaker A: That's such a great way to look at that because.
Yeah. People.
Yeah. I love that analogy.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: I was recently in an auto accident, and it's. It's scary. Right? I didn't want to drive in that same area again.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: No.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: Even though I wasn't injured.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: It. It's a frightening thing to happen, and it affects everybody, regardless of who did their best and regardless of whose fault it is.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: That's so good. That's so good. So as we wrap this up, you know, I ask every. Every time, what is. What is one perspective that you would encourage listeners to apply today?
[00:24:08] Speaker B: If we're looking at the fourth commandment, honor your parents, Give weight. Give weight to your parents.
We need to care for them. We need to care for them.
Jesus took care of a concern that his mother had. Jesus also, when he was hanging on the cross, gave his mother to his disciple John and said, hey, here's your mother. Hey, here is your son. And took care of her in her old age. And we must revere our parents, appreciate them, be kind, polite, respect their property and possessions. Not to be one of these. These Prodigal sons that says, give me all my inheritance. Peace out. A town down. We need to really rely on Jesus's perfection here, not our own perfection, because there's just no way. There's no way. There's no way the.
So Philippians 4 to. To be grateful, we have to think about the excellent and praiseworthy things that they have done for us. Even if there are two. Like, literally, sometimes I will go to sleep and I will be like, I am grateful for this one thing that my mom did for me. And if I can say it over and over and over again, I can pray against the hostility and resentment and pray for mercy and grace.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: And this is what happens when you are healed. Healing the trauma that your parents have caused on you and every parent causes trauma. But if you are not at the point where you can heal that trauma, you're not in a safe space, you don't have anybody helping you. Maybe you're not at that point yet where you can just think about the good things, because you have to come. I think you have to come to grips with the bad in order to appreciate the good. Which is the whole idea behind the Ten Commandments, right. Is that these are the things that we cannot do. But here is the good news. We don't have to do them perfectly. So to apply that to our own lives is. We have. We have to walk through those dark waters before we realize that we can look at the good.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. As you were saying, talking, I was thinking, nowhere in this conversation are we saying to allow physical abuse and to just put up with it. We're not saying, just pray your way out of it. So if you are in that type of a situation, please talk to someone. Reach out.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Get help. Because you. That is not what the Lord wants you to stay in.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: Be honest about it. Do not sugarcoat it. Be honest with one person. Tell them point blank exactly what is happening in excruciating detail.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: So please, please hear us.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: None of this. Well, sometimes this happens. Like, yes, actually, all of the bits and pieces, say them out loud.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Christina, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for your curiosity and your questions and helping us to stir up things that maybe we didn't know that we needed to. To think about. And friend, if you are listening and this conversation stirred something in you know that you are not broken for needing boundaries.
You are brave for walking this path of healing. And that God sees the weight of your story and he is walking with you. And remember, even small shifts in perspective can lead to big changes. Now go put those perspectives into practice. Talk to you next time.
