Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey friends.
[00:00:01] Speaker B: Welcome to Perspectives into Practice, a place where life's stories meet practical wisdom. Together, we'll explore how faith filled perspectives can transform the way we live, love and grow. So grab a seat, settle in and join us on this journey to turn inspiration into action. Let's dive in.
Hey friends, before we dive into today's conversation, I wanted to personally invite you to something really special. June 25th through the 28th, I'm hosting an intimate women's retreat called Wholeness in the Wilderness. Stuffed away near the California redwoods along the Oregon coast. This isn't a loud, packed conference. It's a peaceful, spirit led weekend for women who are tired, stretched thin, carrying too much, who simply longing to reconnect with God in a deeper way. Think redwoods, ocean air, nourishing meals, meaningful connection and space to breathe. Again, we're intentionally keeping it small and intimate because I really want every woman to feel seen, known and cared for. If your heart has been craving renewal, rest, healing, clarity, or simply time away with the Lord, I would absolutely love for you to join us. You can find all the details at Perspectives Into Practice.
Up at the top, just click retreat. And now let's jump into today's episode.
Hey friend, welcome back to Perspectives into Practice. Today's conversation is one that I think so many of us can relate to. Seasons where things feel off, where what once felt natural suddenly feels hard, and maybe even moments where we wonder, God, are you still speaking? If you've ever been there, you're not alone. I'm sitting down with my new friend Brenda and I love her heart and the way she pays attention to what God is doing. Even in the quiet and unexpected places. There is such a piece in her perspective and I think it's really going to encourage you today. Welcome Brenda, I'm so glad that you're here.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: I'm. Thank you for having me, Jessica. I'm so excited.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Oh, we're going to have a great time. So before we dive in though, y' all know I love a good fun fact and Brenda loves to collect vinyl records and loves browsing record stores, which I absolutely love. I love the smell of a good old record. And so my question for you is, what's one record that you would grab any time that you saw it in the store? What's your like?
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Go to Picks Whenever I browse record stores, the first section I go to is the international section and I look through the African albums and then from there I'm typically looking for like Hugh Masekela.
He's typically my go to. And then any other Zimbabwean artists, like, all of them to Kutzi or Thomas Mapumo. So, yeah, I always go to that section first, and then I. And then I expand out to, like, jazz R and B. But that's my first section.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: That's amazing. I want a record player when we get a house, and that will have a place just to sit down. Because in the bus, you really can't. You really can't. Howls a record player. We could probably figure it out, but I want to have some records because there's just something so precious about putting a record on. And, like, the clicks that you. It makes and the sound and the intentionality behind just appreciating the music. It's completely different than just clicking play on an ipod. So.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: So much. Yeah, I love it. I love sitting next to my record player and listening.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Yes, I love that. And that, like, slowing down in intentionality is exactly what we're talking about today. And I love that so much, because sometimes it's in those slower moments that God meets us in the clearest ways. And so I want to step into the season that you've been walking through recently. You shared with me that there's a past season that has felt super challenging with routines being off and things just feeling unclear. So what did that season look like for you?
[00:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah, so, you know, in the spirit of obedience, I, I, I was in a job and then just sensed the Lord calling me out of that job and telling me to start working on my business. So I was obedient and I started doing that. But then I hit a wall really, really quickly and I started looking for work and just sensed the Lord saying, no, didn't tell you, look for work. But then right after that, what I sensed him saying was, work on your book. So I did that.
And it was hard to do that when I wasn't making an income, but I did it anyway. I, um, we finally got the book published, but then the book gets published, it gets released, and then I just put my head down and I was working on marketing the best I knew how, because I couldn't afford to hire someone to do my marketing for me. And I just truly believed that as I put my head down and I did what I needed to do, that God would bless all of my efforts and I would have, you know, incredible sales and, you know, everything would just work out. And it didn't, you know, and not to say that it's over. I mean, my book is still out there, but still it was just like, huh. I thought that this year that I focused on this, that you would bless my efforts and, you know, I would wake up one morning and, you know, there would be some surprise miracle. But that didn't happen. And so I had to pivot back to, okay, I need to find work. I need to find an income. But I was so. I was angry in that. In that place, because I felt like God sent me up.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. It could definitely feel that way when you're obedient and it doesn't work like you think that it should.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, I was. I was really angry. But a year before, he had talked to me about expressing the fullness of my emotions to him. So even though I was angry because of the work he had already done with me in me, I was comfortable enough to take my anger to him, you know, and of course, being careful not to blaspheme Holy Spirit, because that is the most egregious and unforgivable sin. But I just took it all to him, just exactly how I was feeling. I feel set up. I wish you would have told me differently. I can't believe I'm, like, still in this place. Like, what are we doing?
I did everything that you asked me to do. And so, I mean, that went on for a few months, and I just. I didn't know what to do anymore. I didn't know how to pray. The words I was. When I was reading my Bible, it was just words on the page. And. And I, you know, I said to him, I don't. I don't know, like, I don't know what to believe for. I don't know what to ask for. I don't know how to pray. I don't even know how to be right now. It felt like everything just unraveled. And then I just started questioning everything I thought I heard.
How I was living on my faith, how I was living out my relationship with him. It was just. It was a. It was an unraveling, so to speak. Yeah.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Yeah. That's. That is really hard when you are so close to the Lord and you do exactly what he says and it doesn't turn out the way that you expected, even in the smallest way, and that you just feel that everything is. Everything is gone and missing and empty and. And shallow and. And like, you said the words on a page, like, I. I went through something like that, very similar. And so I completely understand how. How that feels. And it's so hard, especially when you are helping others. I'm Like, Lord, I'm.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: I.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: You have taught me all of these things so that I can teach others, and now I'm trying to teach others, and you have gone question mark. Like, obviously he hasn't gone, but like, what are you. What are you teaching me in this. In this way? So since it was harder for you to. To hear God's voice, what was that like emotionally and spiritually for you?
[00:05:55] Speaker A: It was hard because I was so used to just hearing his voice and being confident in what he was telling me to do and moving with that and being obedient to that. And then I got to this place to where I wasn't hearing. I was frustrated with where I was. I didn't even know what to be obedient to.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: But then one day.
One day I was praying with a friend and we. We. So what? One thing I did do, though, was I have a really good friend, really good sister friend. And we have been intentional about reading the Bible together. We just call it our Bible study time at least once a week. Yeah. And so we sat down one day and we were. It was one of those times we were just reading through our Bibles. And then the next morning I went for a walk. I don't remember what passage we had read. I just know the next morning I went for a walk. And what rose up in my heart was that I am angry with you because you haven't paid me for being obedient. Oh, yeah. And it was that word, paid. And then I was like. When that came up, I was like, oh. Like, it was like a stab. Because I was like, oh, my heart is so deceitful. And that's what was in it. That the reason I was so upset was. I expected was that I was treating our relationship as transactional and I was expecting payment for being obedient.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: So that. That was hard, but it was good because it was revelatory.
And one of the things, I always say that where there's revelation, there's freedom.
So I knew I had somewhere to go from there.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: Which started with repentance.
Just repenting of being a person, of doing and checking all the boxes and saying, okay, well, now I've done all these things, God, so now what are you going to do for me? So I had to repent of that part of my relationship with him and. And surrender it. Because I also didn't know what to do with that other than to repent. So I just repented and said, like, I don't know how not to be like this so I'm just releasing it to you, and I trust that you will be teaching me and guiding me how not to be like this and how not to posture myself like this. So. So that. That was the beginning.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that's so important that you say that, because our friends listening, I'm sure that they've gone through something similar where they have been disappointed and truly upset in their heart and not even know what. What that is. And a lot of times I feel like when we go through hard things like this, that we do have something on our heart that's holding us back, but we don't even know what that is because we aren't willing to press in to figure that out. And because sometimes it's just easier to be mad and. And wallow in that than it is to go back to the beginning and try to fix what, you know, figure out what. What is it. What. What is making my heart so hard toward this situation and then asking the Lord like you did, and him revealing that to you and it. Softening your heart, which is just such a beautiful, beautiful thing. So you. You mentioned that he. He spoke to you in this wonderful way and, and told you to do something in the next. In the next phase. What was that? Can you walk us through that?
[00:08:28] Speaker A: Oh, okay. So from when that. When the revelation of that deceit.
And so then, you know, I repented and I took it to him, but it still took some time. Right. Like I said, I didn't know what to do or how to be.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: But just from that posture, I just kept doing what I knew to do.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: And I had, funny enough, I don't remember if it was around the same time, I should have pulled out my journal. But as you know, because you've been on my podcast. I have a podcast, and I interviewed someone in January, actually. Kathy Garland, who I know you've connected with as well.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: I have. She's so wonderful. Yeah.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: And so I. I interviewed her in January for my podcast, and she was great. And it was around that time where I was, like, dealing with this anger and all the things. And I think it was around the time that this deceit had been revealed in my heart. And we interviewed, and it was great. And I was like, oh, I love this. This is awesome. But I wasn't planning on releasing it until March, so I was planning on editing. And then somehow weeks went by and I. And I hadn't edited it. Edited it yet.
Then in early March, I sat down. I'm like, okay, I need to edit Kathy's episode because I'm going to be releasing it soon. And as I was editing it and listening, it was so amazing because one of the things that the Lord had been doing. So right before I edited it, something kept coming up in my heart that you haven't been writing, Brenda. You haven't been writing. And one of the things he had revealed to me in the prior season is that you are a writer. And I was like, okay. But because now I had all of these things pressing on me, I'm trying to figure out is my next move, how am I making income. All of these things, I just put the writing on pause. And when I say I put the writing on pause, not just public facing writing, but even my journaling, I wasn't doing that. Yeah. And so I just, I, I, I expressed to a friend of mine and I said, hey, I just, I haven't been writing. I'm like confessing to you I haven't been writing. And she's like, oh, no, but that's okay. You know, you're working on these things. And I said, no, no, you don't understand. I haven't been writing. Yeah, like, yeah, I haven't been journaling. And she's like, oh, yeah. So then I just tentatively got back in my journal and I was just like, handwriting in my physical journal. So I'd started doing that and then I wrote, I'd taken a break from my blog. So then I decided I'm going to write a piece on my blog. I wrote that piece for my blog. And when I, when I was writing it, I felt like I was hearing God again. I was like, oh, like I'm hearing you again. I'm hearing you again. Then. So I post that. And then a few days later, I start editing Kathy's episode. And she said something that struck me. She said, sometimes when we go through seasons, uh, I'm not quoting this part exactly, but when we go through seasons where we're not hearing God, you just have to seek him. And. But then she expounded on what she meant by that, because I think sometimes as believers, we can say, oh, seek God. And it's just very kind of, you know, religious.
Just, you know, just read your Bible, just pray, but you're doing those things and it's not working right. Like, this is the place that you're in. And so she said, when he's in that place, I think it's important that we seek him. And then she said this. She said, is God hidden just enough that you have the joy of finding him.
So she was saying, go on this quest of looking for him. Maybe not in the usual places, but just go on this quest of looking for him so that you have the joy of finding him. And when I heard her say that, I remember that I just written, and I'd had that joy of like, oh, I found you again. I can hear you again.
So that, just like, that released me as well, where I'm like, okay, I need to continue on with my writing. And it was so funny that I'd heard Kathy say this. Now, this is the third time I heard her. Right. Because I interviewed her. No, second time I interviewed her, and now I'm doing the editing.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: And I'm like, yeah.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Huh? Yeah.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Oh, that is so powerful. Because, you know, he. God does want us to go back to our first love, which should be him. Right? That is. That is that. And I love that she. She. Her episode will be coming out before. Before this one does. And so, friends, when you hear it, you're gonna know she is the sweetest little southern lady.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: The best.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: So, so wonderful. So many wonderful nuggets. And so I love that you're in. In doing what you know the Lord has asked you to do. He's revealing himself to you through other people's revelations. And it just. It just continues to. To keep going. But there is something just so powerful about going back to what he's told us to do and going back to doing what brings us joy. But I love that. But read that again.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: She says God is God hidden just enough that you have the joy of finding Him.
Yeah.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: And that is seeking Him. Seeking him with our whole everything, not just reading the Bible, like we know what we're supposed to do. Talking to him, like we know that we're supposed to do, but truly seeking him and looking for him in some unknown places sometimes. And I think that that is such a powerful lesson that our friends listening, you know, we'll. We'll really relate to, because we do go through seasons and we just go, why God? Why? He's like, come find me. Come find me. Oh, wow. Wow. So what shifted for you once you started writing and, like, you know, journaling and getting your thoughts and hearing from him again, that joy, like, what. What shifted for you in that season? That. That was stretching.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: So, you know, I.
When I edited that episode, I was actually. I was just, like, writing physically in my journal. But then I started thinking of. There was this website I used to use called 750words. And I was like, I think I might need to just use that again where I'm typing. But then I can get my thoughts out quicker than writing by hand, though I do love writing by hand. I love pens. I have all kinds of things. I love all these things, right?
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: But I was like. I was thinking, I think I need to get on 750 words again. And then I had another. A call with a different friend, and we were reading our Bibles, and then just. She just says, brenda, I think, have you been writing? And then, you know, I told everything I just told you. And she said, well, have you used that website that you used before? 750 words? And then I was like, oh, okay, this is confirmation.
So the next morning, I started using it again. So I've been getting on it every single day since then and writing at least 750 words and all of that to say that as I've been writing and I've just been pouring all of my thoughts out and pouring my prayers out when I'm out and about doing other things. Then God said, I start. I started to hear him clearly on what I need to do, on what steps I need to take. So, like, I'll have an idea and be like, oh, I think I need to do this. And then one or two friends might say exactly the same thing. And I'm like, okay, I'm on the right path. And then I do that, and then again, just have another idea.
So that's how it's been as I've been pouring my heart out in my journaling. And, you know, it's a mix of just, like, dumping out my emotions and prayers. Right. And gratefulness. Right. And just thanking God for what he's. He's done. As I've been doing that, I feel clearer, like the brain fog has gone. And I'm like, okay, this is the next step I need to take. And I'm not frustrated anymore. I'm not yet where I would like to be, but I'm not. I'm not frustrated anymore. I'm not angry anymore. In fact, I'm waking up each day just looking forward to the next thing that I'm doing and. And just really giving it to God. So, yeah, so that. That writing has just. It's cleared the fog, but it's. Because I found him there.
[00:14:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:28] Speaker B: I think a lot of people are afraid of a blank page. And journaling has been so cathartic for me. It has been so just like that. Like, it clears my mind. It gets rid of the cobwebs and the fog, and it really helps me to get my mind on paper so that the Lord can. I can hear better from the Lord, which sound. It's almost like taking off earplugs by writing. Like, it just unclogs and it opens up my flow with him. And not to say that I. I don't hear from him when I'm not writing, but when I. When I am journaling and I'm just getting all of my thoughts on paper, it really does help. And. And I. So I love that, that I'm not alone in that at all. So, speaking of obedience, so going back to the obedience. So earlier you referenced Joshua 4 and how the Israelites obeyed specific things. So how has that passage shaped how you see obedience now?
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. So that, like Joshua 3 and 4 have been pivotal in my life. And one of the big things I like talking about is like remembering where God has shown up. So, you know, as we're talking about this season that I just went through, the friend I was telling you about that, the first friend I mentioned, whom I was reading the Bible with her one day, we were reading in Joshua 4. So actually, let me get my Bible out, and then I can tell you exactly what unfolded. So we were reading. We were reading Joshua 3 and 4. So the Israelites are crossing the Jordan. And I said to her, isn't it interesting that I find it interesting that after all of the Israelites finished crossing, if I was one of the priests who was standing in the river with the ark, as soon as the last person crossed, I would have started walking across as well.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: And I said to her, but they didn't. They stood there.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: And not only did they just stand there, but I don't know how much longer they were there, but they were there quite a while because then Joshua goes to hear from the Lord and the Lord tells him, get 12 stone. You know, pick 12 men, get 12 stones from out of the the River Jordan and bring them to the bank. So they do that. And then the next set of instructions was go back in the river and then put 12 stones in there. Like leave 12 stones there.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: And then even after that. Right, let's see. Did I highlight it? Even after that, the priests didn't come out of the river. So in Joshua 4, verse 17, it says, so Joshua commanded the priests come up, come up from the Jordan. But he tells them to do this after all of these things that happened. So they didn't move until they were given the instructions from Joshua. And I was thinking Joshua was their leader. And so he had to have modeled. Don't do anything until I tell you to. Because that's what he was doing with the Lord, because he. He kept going back to the Lord for instruction. So all that to say, my friend and I, when we were talking about this, we were like, oh, what was the last thing the Lord said?
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: And so now that I'm remembering clearly. Yeah. At that point when we were reading our Bibles, I think it was then the next day that I, I had the revelation of deceit. God said, what was the last thing I told you to do? And I was like, right. But I was also confused because I'm like, but why are you telling me to write when I need to make. Like, how am I going to make money writing?
[00:17:07] Speaker B: Yeah. He's like, don't worry.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Right. And so. But it took a while from here to what I just shared with you for the revelation, because initially when he said, right, I was like, okay, I need to figure out how to write and make money. But then it took a while and then I understood that, oh, it's writing so I can find you not writing so I can earn an income. Yeah. And so that Joshua four really spoke three and four really spoke to me about his instruction. And like, what is the last thing he told us to do? And my friend and I talk about this a lot. She said, you know, where sometimes as believers, we're clamoring for the next set of instructions, but we haven't done the last thing he's told us to do.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, we need to learn to go back to that and to keep asking. To keep asking. And when I, when I first started this podcast, he told me to start the podcast. And I said, oh, but I'm working on this thing. Like, that's, that's not. That's not it. And so he's like, but you need to start it. And I'm like, oh, but. But we've got this thing that, that, you know, you've called me to. And so I kept. I didn't realize it was making excuses, but now when I think back, I'm like, yeah, I was making every excuse not to start it because it was other things that he had told me to do. And he's like, yes, you're gonna do those things. But also at the same time, I want you to, to share these stories and I want people to, to hear these, these wonderful things that I'm doing in everyday women's lives. And I'm so thankful that I did, because this is. This Whole thing is exactly what he started in me in the very beginning was sharing women's stories. And so even though it looks differently, it is for me going back to what he originally told me to do, which was helpful to share women's stories. And it's. It's so. It really is powerful when we go back. When we go back to, like you said, what he has first asked us to do, and then actually do that. Right. Because it's easy for him to just say, yeah, this is what you want. Well, oh, yes. It's a. It's a tricky, tricky place, but it is. He's so faithful. He's so.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: He really is. And. And, you know, the other thing I learned there, Jessica, was that even in what he told me to do, I still. I needed my community. My community was pivotal.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: In discerning exactly what he meant by that. Because I thought he. Like I said, I thought he meant, okay, right. To earn your income.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: But he was saying, right. To find me. Right. So between Cat, you know, for the first time I read this passage with my friend and then the interview with Kathy and then editing it and then the time with my friend, it was in that community that strategy became clear. Like, this is what this looks like, not what you're thinking it looks like.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: So for that woman who is listening, who feels like she's in this hard season or. What advice or direction would you give her to stay connected to God and to know what those next steps are for her?
[00:19:23] Speaker A: I think two specific things. Whichever part of your spiritual disciplines is working for you, keep with that. Whether it's prayer or solitude or reading your Bible, whatever, any of those things. And then I think the second most important part is community, because sometimes. Not sometimes, but I really think I'm learning this myself, and I'm really learning to embrace it even more. That a lot of times we hear from God through our community. And when we isolate ourselves, and when. When we isolate ourselves, we put ourselves in an echo chamber of our own thoughts. And my friend and I talk about this, that she mentions it a lot about echo chambers. And we think we're hearing from God, but perhaps we're not. And sometimes we are, but sometimes we might not be. And so when we have community around us, that community can help refine exactly what we need to do. So, yeah, I would definitely say keep, you know, whatever is working for your spiritual disciplines and community and community that you can trust, where you can be yourself with them and they can be themselves with you.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: That's. That is perfect. I love how what you shared is so simple without trying to do more, without trying to add more on our plates, because that's exactly what we don't need, is to add one more thing, but to just keep it simple. Do exactly what we are doing with the community together. Just. Just beautiful. Brenda, thank you so much for sharing your heart today. This has really been an encouraging conversation, and I know that these ladies listening, they're just. They're gonna love it. And before we wrap up, I want to ask you one question that I ask every guest, and that is, what is one perspective that you would encourage listeners to apply today?
[00:20:41] Speaker A: One perspective I would encourage listeners to apply today is as you're seeing God show up in your lives, record it. And I don't care how you do it, if you put it on a post it, if you record a voice note, if you put it in a journal, just record it. Because when we go back and look at those places and we just remember, oh, yeah, okay, yeah, you did this. So you can certainly get me through this season. And so even when it feels dire and you're in this pit like I was, I still remembered that God is still faithful because he did X, Y, Z in this year or in this month or even just yesterday.
So do whatever you can to record what God is doing and go back to it when you need it to encourage you to move forward. And not just encouragement for yourself, but encouragement for your community. Because as we share those stories, the word says that the testimony of Jesus is a spirit of prophecy. So as we share those stories and testimonies with each other, it's a prophetic word for somebody else.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: So, yeah, beautifully said. Beautifully said, friend. If you're in a season where things feel unclear sometimes that next step isn't something new. It's simply returning to what God has already said. And if this conversation encouraged you, please share it with a friend who might need it, too. And if you've been listening and thinking, I have a story like that, or God has been doing something in my life too, I would love to hear from you. This space is for real conversations and real stories. So don't hesitate to reach out to me at perspectives into practice.com. you might be sitting in the guest seat next. And remember, even small shifts in perspective can lead to big changes. Now go put those perspectives into practice. Talk to you next time.
