Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey, friend.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Welcome to Perspectives into Practice, a place where life's stories meet practical wisdom. Together, we'll explore how faith filled perspectives can transform the way we live, love, and grow.
So grab a seat, settle in, and join us on this journey to turn inspiration into action.
Let's dive in foreign.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: Hey, friend.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Welcome back to Perspectives into Practice. Today's conversation feels steady, grounded, peaceful in a way that isn't loud, but it's deep. I'm sitting down with my new friend, Kathy. She has such a thoughtful and intentional heart. What I love about her is the way that she pays attention to what God is doing in the quiet places.
Not in just the big breakthroughs, but in the unseen, in between moments. Right now, she's in a season where God is gently reshaping, where her identity comes from, moving from being grounded in what she can do to being rooted in him, learning what it looks like to remain not in her own strength, but in deeper dependence on God. Kathy, welcome. I'm so grateful that you're here.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Thank you. I'm excited. Of course. This is gonna be fun. And a fellow Southerner, so I feel like if some other people are listening, they will know that we are from the same region.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Oh, yes. I love that. I love it when. When I find another twang sister.
All right, so before we dive in, y' all know I love a good, fun fact, and this one made me smile. So Kathy can walk up and down stairs all around a room with a book balanced on her head, which is so cool. And she. That. So you told me that you learned this during poise lessons, which I honestly feel is just like the perfect metaphor for your life.
So I do need to ask you, have you ever leveled up and tried balancing, like, multiple books or anything else on your head?
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Yes. You know, it's one of those party tricks that you can pull out.
But, you know, you. You learn this in Southern lady lessons, right? There's. There's just a few things that Southern women aren't always taught to do. Now, my mother was not Southern. She was from Seattle, Washington, and she was a hippie.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: And my dad was, you know, from out there as well. So there was a lady named Cordell Kiblinger, and she was a total Atlantan, born and raised. She remembered. And we tell stories about riding a trolley into town, and she would teach us at a tee, and she would show us, you know, the place settings, how to tie a bow, how to arrange flowers, like, all these things, and how to have a conversation, how to be a hostess at A table. And one of the main things we learned was how to cross our ankles. Sit. Cross her legs, sit. I'm not even doing it right, you know, with my shoulders back. I'm kind of sloppy.
And then put the book on the head. And the trick is, here's the trick. You can't carry a book or anything on your head unless you have the good posture. And so she would teach us that. It was a lot of fun. But, you know, it's one of those. I can balance, you know, a book on my head. And it's like saying I can eat 40 eggs in the, in the movie. Or one of those kinds of things. People like, let's do it, show me.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: I feel like all of that is such a lost art. And being from the South, I feel like there's a lot of things that we learned and taught our kids that to me just makes sense. But when I meet other people as we're traveling, I'm like that. So. So that's not a everything that everybody don't know, that everybody doesn't do this. But it's so important, I think, especially as women, as we're taking care of the household, to know these things. And it's definitely a lost art that I'm teaching my kids, but not in. Not in a proper way. Maybe in a. In a more relaxed way. But I. Right. I love that you did that.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And I do the same. Like I'm passing it on to my kids. I'm like, a lady knows how to write a thank you note and will always write a thank you note.
And forgetting that is a travesty, you know, or something like that. It really is.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: And people say, my mother in law, she said, you don't need to send me thank you notes. I'm like, but if I'm not thanking you, my family, why am I thanking anyone else? Like, you're the, you're the closest. Like there's a family here. I should be most grateful for you.
So, you know, I'll send a thank you note and do those kind of small things. And my son, just recently, he said at school they were correcting his grammar. We're in Virginia, and Virginia is not a Southern state. Even though they think they are, they are not a Southern state.
And especially where we are, it's mountain folk. And they're sweet and they're wonderful, but they are not Southern.
And the lady was correcting his grammar and he was like, why do they want me to speak like everyone else? This is how I speak And I was like, you just go right on and say certain things. And. And he said. I said a phrase. I said someone was crazy, but instead of saying they were crazy, I said it the Southern way. I said, his cheese has slid off his cracker.
That was.
It needed a lot of explanation. So anyway, I. They just kind of slip out, right?
[00:05:33] Speaker B: Yep.
Oh, my gosh. I love that.
That is.
Yeah, we. We gotta. We gotta learn everybody else. Teach them. Teach them all of our ways. Because there's stuff that we say that. Oh, man, there's a. There's a lot of the west coast people coming over to the south, over. Coming over to Tennessee. And I'm like, here's the thing. Y' all are welcome to come here, but just know that we say, bless your heart.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: We.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: We use turn signals, and we have respect for mams and sirs. So, you know, you're welcome to come, but let's. Let's. Let's use some of that Southern hospitality as well.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: That's right. Exactly. You're gonna have to brush up on a new language.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: That's right. That's exactly right. Oh, I love that. All right. So you have been in a season where God is inviting you to rely on competence and into something deeper. It's a dependence on him that isn't visible, but it is so much more real. So I want to talk about that. So in your description, when you were telling me is this quiet, like, internal season, it's not something that's dramatic on the outside. So what did it actually look like in your life in this season where God was asking you to lay this down?
[00:06:49] Speaker A: So it started when, at the beginning of the year, he gave me this word, intentional. He always gives me some word. But it was obvious to me when I heard it that there was, like, intentional and sort of like, fill in the blank. You know, there's more to it. And I was like, well, what's the rest of it? You know, in the past, it's been something like diligence or some. Some word like that. Right. And in this case, it was intentional. And then there was like, a pause, like a blank.
And it was sort of half a phrase. Right. And you didn't fill it in.
But he seems to sort of complete it week by week. And so it's intentional, children, intentional rest. Intentional. Whatever is getting my attention right now.
And, you know, as a Southern woman, Christian woman, growing up in the church, I grew up saying yes to everything.
Probably too much. Like, definitely too much. Okay. And. And sometimes that just how you're trained and doors open for you and you get stretched in beautiful ways and growth comes quickly. There's a lot of momentum.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: When you're in a season of saying yes, but this is a different season. And so he's like being intentional, which means intentionally saying yes and intentionally saying no.
That's a part of this. Yeah. And so I've started living in this 15 minute increments.
So whatever I'm doing, I'm doing for 15 minutes. And you think, well, that seems less present, but it's actually more because I'm more of aware. Even if I scrolling on my phone, I'm not doom scrolling on my phone. It's 15 minutes.
Okay.
Or hiding from my kids in the bathroom for 15 minutes or whatever it is.
I'm doing it for 15 minutes and then, then I'm going to move on. But I'm more aware of what I'm doing in those 15 minute increments than I've ever been for.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: And instead of moving unconsciously through the day, I starting to live from more of this awareness of my body, awareness of what I'm doing, awareness of what I'm thinking. And instead of urgency defining me or even visibility or whatever defining me, I'm slowing down and inhabiting those minutes which has caused me to evaluate some things I didn't realize were there.
One of them was what I was telling you, which was an identity. And I'm still working through this, but it, and it may be an age thing because I'm about ready to turn 50. So I'm 48.
And you know, at 20 I went through something. At 30 I went through my I don't care phase.
You know, at 35, it really went through my I really don't care what people think phase. You know, so there's these different phases that you go through and perimenopause helps with all that. Right. But right now.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Yes, it does.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: It does. It does. It's the it. It's the we do not care club for a reason.
But this 50, I'm part of that.
I'm there.
And so maybe it has to do with that just being around the corner. I'm not sure. But I realized that I have been operating from competence.
So in your 20s you're drumming up competence. You're trying to be recognized for your competence in your, then in your 30s or whatever, maybe you're reliant on your experience and people are making room for your competence. And. And now I walk into a room to a board meeting or to whatever And I'm. I'm. Am the competent one. I have the experience. Nobody is questioning me anymore.
But what if that's now an identity? It is.
And I can't rely on that. I've got to rely on my Father in Heaven and my. Yeah, my Holy Spirit friend who's guiding me from within.
And if I'm relying on my competence, I'm not relying on him exactly in
[00:11:04] Speaker B: all of this, because it feels like a lot is stirring since the beginning of the year.
What did it feel like when you felt the Lord sensing you to lay this down and really reflect inward, what was going on there, that tension going on?
[00:11:21] Speaker A: Well, first of all, it hit me like a load of bricks that maybe I've entertained an identity that I'm going to have to slay. And, you know, I've done that before. There are all through your life, you're going to come across things that try to tell you this is your identity. And you've got to be able to say, no. My primary first identity is Daughter of the Most High. My secondary identity is who he says I am, my third eye. You know, you've got to be able to do that.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: And so when this hit like a load of bricks, I was thinking, all right, all right, Lord, what are you saying here? And I'm starting to watch it come out of my mouth or in a meeting where I would normally lean in on my competence, I'm starting to say, wait a second, what are you saying, Holy Spirit? Because I'm always about what he's saying. I want to always hear him.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: I'm also starting to do ministry in an area that you can't be competent in.
It's not going to happen.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Yeah, he'll humble you real quick.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: Exactly right. Like you can be competent as a pastor and the Holy Spirit can come alongside you. I'm sure that that's. That's fine. I'm doing deliverance and healing, prayer ministry. And you can't come into a situation and assume that all your years of doing this, it's going to be the same as any other time. As a matter of fact, if you do, you're going to miss it. I have got to be presently listening to what he says and doing exactly what he says, not more, not less, to get where we need to go so this person can experience the healing that they need.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: I love that. I love. So. So you mentioned this do this more, less outwardly, more inwardly thing. So what does that look like in real life?
[00:13:24] Speaker A: Right now? It's examination. You Know, like David said, examine me, oh Lord, and show me what, what needs to change. Yeah, so that's the first thing.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: So that's in the step. I would call that the recognitions phase. Like, I am recognizing that this is happening and then repenting when I see it. Lord, I have relied upon or subtly replaced or whatever it is. And so I'm repenting in that moment. Okay, wait, wait, wait, Lord, I repent. So it's this really quick repentance, and it's also this sort of renunciation where I'm like, listen, I renounce that. I don't want anything to become an identity. You have not said. And it's. I'm not saying that getting experience and getting competence is a bad thing. I'm saying letting that be your identity is the bad thing.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It can definitely turn into an idol real quick because like you said, you go through this whole, your whole life going, when will I be the one that has all the answers? When will I be the one that people go to? And then you finally get there and then you just rest on it. And so I can feel, I can feel how, how heavy that is because I, I go through, through the same thing. And, and you don't realize that it's an idol until you do do that examination work or the Lord calls you out on it real quick. So how did you recognize that you were experience. What you were experiencing wasn't failure, but was part of. Of God refining something even deeper in your life?
[00:15:01] Speaker A: I think the first time when I experienced it and I was stopped in my tracks then I started to kind of tune in to it so that I could see it repeated and sort of. Is this really what's happening here? Yes, it is. And then sensing God say to me, we're going to get rid of this thing in you. And a reliance, a self reliance, is kind of what I would, you know, maybe even put it under. Yeah, yeah.
[00:15:28] Speaker B: And, yeah.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: And it's really.
I've had these shifts before where something is internal and you can't quite name it, but you know, God's working on it. But this one was easily named. So I don't, I don't know. Sometimes, you know, you, you're going to do something, but you. When you used to have to prove yourself, then you proved yourself. Yeah. And now everybody.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Trusts you.
Right. Because there's a trustworthiness that comes from experience and competence.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: But I can't lead with that.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. And you shared that in prayer. You sense The Lord saying, remain firm, remain secure. And I love that. That echoes in Isaiah 7, where God calls his people to remain firm. And then in Isaiah, he says, you will keep in perfect peace those who are steadfast because they trust in God. And it. Not just remaining in peace, but remaining in Him, I feel like, is such an important part about that, because if we were. If we're trying to again fill those. Those voids with something else that aren't Jesus, that aren't. Aren't him, that's, you know, we're not. We're not drawing.
We had just. We have to be careful. We have to be careful on that. So how does that phrase, remain firm, remain secure.
How has that been anchoring you in your everyday life?
[00:16:51] Speaker A: It's going back to the disciplines. You know, what Christ says to the churches in Revelation. You know, you've. You've lost your first love.
You no longer do the things you did at the beginning, so return to the things you did at the beginning. So my remain firm remains secure looks like my devotions in the morning and the studies come later.
So, you know, there's a temptation when you're a Bible teacher and a Bible nerd to make your devotional time about reading and studying the Bible. You write books, blogs, podcasts.
You can have this temptation to move that center, right? And I'm not saying that there's not a season where you're going to have to buckle down and make a deadline, by all means. So, you know, you can't live under legalism.
But if I'm going to remain firm and remain secure, I'm going to do it in my devotional time, in my prayer time, in my listening and my journaling time, in my song that stands out to me for the month or whatever, the week, whatever. That just moves my heart each time for me right now, it's the song.
I don't know the singer. She's probably famous. And people be like, oh, of course I know who that is. But she sang this old song.
I don't pay attention to people's names. Famous, you know, in one ear, out loud, I don't know. But she sings this song. It says, my eyes look to the hills, from whence cometh my help, my help cometh from the Lord. That's a very old song. But she sings it like it's new.
And I think it was a Jesus image YouTube video or something like that. And I just have it on play. Like, just repeat, repeat.
Because that is pulling me in to this. Remain firm, remain secure. And not allowing me to give in to the temptation to strive or subtly anchor into being the competent one in the room. Or you mentioned abiding. So remaining in him is also another word we say for abiding. Right. And that's such an old word. I'm not sure everybody can get it as a concept.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: But I am on the vine.
And if I'm stupid enough to chop myself off of the vine, done it, been there, got a T shirt, know what to do.
But if I'm stupid enough chop myself off the vine, what's going to happen? I'm going to ripen to the point of rotting. And so that's what I've got to avoid.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Yeah. So how. How do those. Those simple consistent moments that you. That you spend in the morning and those, you know, mind. Mind altering thoughts that you have, how. How have those been shaping your heart in this season?
[00:19:50] Speaker A: Be quiet? So I try to spend 20 minutes of absolute silence, which is. I dare anyone to try it. It is not easy.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: No.
[00:20:00] Speaker A: Try to spend 20 minutes total silence in my mind and in my heart.
And if I start to run like a rabbit after a to do list or blah, blah, blah, then I'm pulling it back in, usually with a word or a phrase.
And then what I'm noticing in me now, I just got over the flu. So this is not count flu season. I don't know where my brain was in the flu right before flu season.
Right before that, I noticed I was more present.
And I think, you know, talk going back to the intentional fill in the blank in that moment. It's like intentionally present.
And that's a hard thing, I think, for moms. You know, we're pulled in a many million myriad of ways.
And I'm no less that person too.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: I don't know that it can't be that way. Like, this is the society we live in. You cannot go find an island and live, braid hair and eat coconuts like you can't do it.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: Wouldn't that be nice?
[00:21:09] Speaker A: Would be nice, but you can't.
So what we've got to do is to find that place when we're doing the dishes.
Can I find that centering in? I think it's an old term that the early church would have used, centering in. Where I'm reconnecting with the spirit of God while I'm doing the dishes. Yes, I can. Why? Because I've done the dishes a thousand times. I can do it mindlessly if I want to, or I can center it.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And it Sounds like that. I mean, that's, that's exactly what a dependence on God is, is that no matter what we're doing in life, we're always going back to Him. So what would you say for those that are listening, like, what does that dependence on God actually look like in real time?
Not just in theory or in like Christianese words?
[00:21:57] Speaker A: For me, it's stopping right then to, to consult him. Right. Like if he's truly right next to my elbow, which is a Hebrew concept that we have, that God is on hand. He's right at your elbow.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: So if he's truly there, wouldn't you turn to him and say, what do you think about this? Wouldn't you?
So if so, then it's stopping right then. I was talking with a girlfriend after pickup at school, just kind of letting the kids play in the woods and go bananas while we stood in the sunshine and let ourselves thaw. And we were talking about big things, small things, everything.
And, and twice in that conversation we stopped and prayed and then just went on with our conversation.
Let's normalize that.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Yes, yes, absolutely. So for that woman who does feel tired or spiritually weary, what would you say to them is the difference between striving and truly depending on God?
[00:22:59] Speaker A: So striving means that you're still trying to earn something. Yeah. If you're in that place of still trying to earn God's favor or affirmation or somebody else's favor or affirmation. I get it. I've been 22 once upon a time.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: But I'll tell you something that set me free. I came to the realization that God will never love you more than the moment he called you out of darkness into his glorious light when you were his enemy. And he called you out of it right that moment. He will never love you more than that moment. God's love is not growing. It does not change. It does not become larger, it does not become softer. It does not become hard. It is what it is.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: From the moment he loved you, when he still had you in his mind, when he was laying the foundations of the earth.
So his love is perfect. It can never grow. It can never change based on what you do or don't do.
So, right, we have to let all that striving and earning go because it won't change a thing. And then believe.
This is where belief comes in. Right. Faith is the thing of substance, of substance that you walk on in order to get to sanctification. So this faith filled thing is believing that what he says is true when he says, I have loved you with an everlasting love.
Okay. We've got to digest that so that it becomes a part of our DNA and it changes how we manage the rest of our life. But it starts with believing what he says.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And you have to know what he says by reading his word, which goes back to that intentionality of getting into the word and reading it and digesting it and making those. Those intentional steps to. To know what he says and what we're supposed to do and how we're supposed to live. Because if we don't, then we're just striving and trying to keep up with what we think is supposed to be. And that is absolutely exhausting because. Yes, been there, done that.
It's exhausting. And it's so much easier if we just do what he says.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And that might mean saying no and letting go of any number of things in order to say yes. We know that we have to say no to things in order to make room for the things we really need to say yes to. And I think part of our problem, probably it's an American thing, but is that we do see dependence as weakness, not intimacy.
And every time I've ever gone more deeper into intimacy with him, it has required a dependence.
And the weakness that we see it like I have a lack. I don't know that I want to tell everybody I have lack. Not everybody's like you and me talking with people about these things all the time. Or we don't even want to bring it to God who already knows the lack. But here's the thing. He designed you with lack. People like what? He designed me perfect in every way. No, he didn't. He designed you perfect for what he wants, and he's going to do what he wants with you because eventually you'll look like Christ. Like, keep that in mind.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: But he made you with lack, so you would turn to him. If you didn't have lack, you would never turn to him. He designed it so that you would encounter a lack. And you would come to him and say, I have an empty bowl. I lack. And he's like, that's fine, because I got what you need. And he pours it into you, and that's the way he designed it.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Yes. And thank you, Jesus, for designing us that way. Because we. We cannot strive to be perfect because we never will be. Which is why he's created us that so. So beautifully. So if we're. If we're trying to be anything else but what he's created us to be. We are literally running towards something that will never. There will never be an end. There will never be an end to that. You will just continue to do it until you are gone. Gone forever.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: What you just said is that key thing is that we'll be transformed into his likeness when we see him, when he returns or when, you know, when he makes us perfect. So this whole earthly trying to get to perfection, that's a cult thing. You can't do that here. The only time that's gonna happen is when we're all transformed in the twinkling of an eye into the image of Christ. Until then, it's a journey, right?
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Yep, exactly. And we just have to continue walking it and being obedient to what he says to do, take that next step and acknowledge our lack. I love. That was. That was. That was really good. Thank you, Kathy, so much for being here. Thank you for sharing your heart with us today. And before we wrap up, I want to ask you the question that I ask everyone on the podcast, and that is, what is one perspective that you would encourage listeners to apply today?
[00:28:10] Speaker A: The one I would encourage listeners to apply would be sort of a discipline that we've lost in the American church in particular, and that is silence.
Because if you can do a minute of silence, trust me, it will take weeks to get to a couple of minutes. But when you get there, it will change things. You will find that your brain rewires. There are studies on this. Your heart will change, and you'll be able to hear people tell me, I don't know that I can hear God. I'm like, well, your life is noisy, and you got a lot of bings and dings, and then TVs on 24 7. And I'm not surprised you can't hear. Get some silence. And if you can't do it at your couch or your devotional time or whatever because the kids are around, I get it. Go outside, put your feet in the ground, Connect with His creation. Listen to the birds, have the wind. Blow it out of your hair, in your ears. All the to do lists. So that comes out of your ears so you can hear. That's why I'm saying it.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's beautiful. And I. I remind our listeners all the time to do that because I. I know how important it is and how much it's changed my life. And it sounds, again, it sounds like one of those simple things like, oh, yeah, sure, just go outside. But it really is an intentionality that you have to choose because right away your brain wants to go and go, oh, well, now that it's quiet, I can think of all these other things to do and you have to go.
That is not the point of this right now. So you're right. It's like you might think that you can get it, but it's going to take a while to get up to that time. And the that is a great, great perspective to apply. I love that friend. If you are feeling the pressure to hold everything together, to perform or to prove something, maybe today is your invitation to let that go, to stop drawing from your own strength and begin learning what it looks like to depend on God in the middle of your everyday life. To stay rooted, to stay steady, to trust that he's working even in the quiet. If today's conversation encouraged you, share it with someone who might need that reminder. And as we close, I just want to leave you with this. Your story matters more than you think it does. The things you've walked through, the way God has met you in those moments, the perspectives you've gained along the way, that could be exactly what someone else needs right now. So if you've ever thought maybe I should share this, I want to encourage you to take that step. I would genuinely love to have you as a guest on the podcast. You can reach me at perspectives into practice.com and let's chat. And remember, even small shifts in perspective can lead to big changes. Now go put those perspectives into practice. Talk to you next time.
